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A320/737-type Aircraft Stall Recovery  
User currently offlineWidebody From Ireland, joined Aug 2000, 1152 posts, RR: 8
Posted (13 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 11724 times:

For an A320/737 sized aircraft, how much height does it take to recover a stall? What about A340/777?

Rgds....

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineOldman From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (13 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11685 times:

Good Question, Who knows? not me! We only do approach to stalls and recover on the first indication.. Keep the tail behind you.

User currently offlinePilot1113 From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2333 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (13 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11677 times:

I think it's about 5,000 feet of altitude or more. I know that an Airborne Express DC-8 crashed after a stall demonstration.

In the modern airliners, you really have to push the nose down while increasing the power. In addition the jet engine has about a 10 second spool up time, so you have to factor that in there. While you're diving towards the ground to build up airspeed you're waiting 10 seconds for that engine to spool up. This alone should be cause for a good amount of altitude loss.

- Neil Harrison


User currently offlineOldman From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (13 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 11651 times:

Doing approach to stalls in a large jet are not the same as a light aircraft. First of all we never reduce the power to the point that the engine is un-spooled and there for do not have to wait for it to accelerate. We get configured and maintain altitude while speed bleeds off. Still holding altitude and very slowly increasing a little pitch untill the first sign of buffet while still at altitude then recover. Normally you can do this and not loose more that 100 feet or so. Also with the very clean wing of a modern jet, if the nose goes down you will not have to "wait" for the speed to build. It will be there and beyond in a heart beat. This works for Dc-9 Bac1-11 B732 B733 B734 B752 B767 and most others. Keep the tail behind you  Smile

User currently offlinePilot1113 From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2333 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (13 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 11627 times:

A video tape was shown in one of my aviation classes that showed an MD-11 going through flight testing. They showed both external and internal cockpit views.

One of the things they showed was a full stall. To recover it seemed like they really had to apply full pressure to break the stall.

I also thought that the swept back wings of modern aircraft play into this somehow and thus create the need for more altitude and slower recovery.

Of course, I have been wrong before...

- Neil Harrison


User currently offlineOldman From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (13 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11615 times:

You are correct in what you say and what you saw. Like I said before, operators of large aircraft to not get into full stall, during flight testing is a different can of worms. Pilots are judged on their ability to recognize low speed buffet, also what do you suspect high speed buffet would feel like? (This is not a test)  Smile

User currently offlineWidebody From Ireland, joined Aug 2000, 1152 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (13 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11610 times:

I'm specifically wondering about an accident like the Thai one, I think it was an A310 on the 3rd go around......what would he have needed to recover from a full stall, or is the only answer 'the ground'......

Rgds..


User currently offlineOldman From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (13 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11608 times:

Not qualified to comment on the A310. Sorry

User currently offlineWidebody From Ireland, joined Aug 2000, 1152 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (13 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11601 times:

Not specifically A310 Oldman, any aircraft, just using Thai as an example..if I were to let a stall develop, and lost airflow, am I screwed either way?

Thanks for the info so far,

Rgds,
Dave....


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8115 posts, RR: 54
Reply 9, posted (13 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11595 times:

A Singapore Airlines 747 stalled while cruising over Turkey en route from Singapore to Northern Europe. They lost about 1,700 feet. Bizarrely (considering how unusual it is to even get a stall warning, let alone a stall), SQ stalled another 747 climbing out of Vienna, and the aircraft apparently descended 800 feet. That SQ have only had three crashes (Taipei, Silkair and an A310 lost with all aboard during a training mission in Borneo) is a miracle.

Aerolineas Argentinas stalled a 707 climbing out of NY and although I don't know where they were when the sequence started, they swooped towards houses in Queens and missed the ground by about 200 feet. An engine spat out a load of flames (compressor stall) and the passengers were by all accounts losing it big time. None-the-less they continued the flight to South America.

Two very classy airlines. Not.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineChdmcmanus From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 374 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (13 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 11582 times:

Another factor not previosly mentioned here is the unsuing roll after a stall. If lateral control is not maintained throughout a full stall, a severe rolling action may ensue rendering a loss of control as the ailerons become ineffective. The other factor is acft configuration, with gear and flaps down, not only does stall speed change, but control and recovery carachteristics as well. When I was being trained, I was taught to listen for the "elephants on the wings", in large acft a stall warning will be encontered on an encroaching stall, followed by a banging noise as the airflow buffets against the wings. I have only ever heard one legitamate stall warning, caused by a sever tailwind shear, we recovered normally and landed uneventfully, and when I made some additional S&G calculations on the ground, I found we were still a good 10 knots above Vstall!


"Never trust a clean Crew Chief"
User currently offlineTito From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 125 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (13 years 6 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11538 times:

In the CV-580 we lowered the nose during recoveries much like in a light airplane, and we would less than 500 feet in a full flap stall and about 100 feet in a zero flap stall. This was a difficult habit for me to overcome during sim training on the BAe-146 where we maintained a constant pitch attitude and powered out of the stall (actually just an imminent stall). If you dropped the nose at all you would lose altitude in a big hurry (and like Oldman said the airspeed increases VERY fast). So if we demonstrated it properly we would lose less than 100 feet. The 146 also has a "stick pusher" and if you are too aggressive during the approach to stall or recovery you would activate it and you had better have alot of altitude to play with. All of the stall protections (stick shaker and pusher) are activated by angle-of-attack so even in the simulator you would never actually get a full stall (the pusher would activate before that could happen).



User currently offlineXxxx10 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 777 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (13 years 6 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11531 times:

I didn't think you could stall an A320

User currently offlineJG From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (13 years 6 months 2 days ago) and read 11517 times:

xxxx10,

Can't stall a 320 without degrading it.... and I don't mean comparing it to Boeing.  Smile (Sorry, could not resist)

Just kidding everyone... don't get started.

You have to turn off a couple of flight control computers and force it to behave badly.


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