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Are Flight Engineers "real" Pilots?  
User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5227 times:

I just asked myself if flight engineers on older aircraft like 742, 743, DC10 etc. actually have a real pilot's license? In other words: Can they take the seat of a first officer or captain in case their "old" airplane is phased or do they the become unemployed?

Jan

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5211 times:

In some cases yes, others no. Today the FE position is just a stepping stone to move up to the right seat within a company that flys 3 man crews. But there are a few 'old school' FE's out there that only hold a FE License.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8494 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5171 times:

It depends on whether the FE actually has a pilot's license or not. Most do, nowadays, but in the past (the great long, long ago) a lot of them didn't.

User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5169 times:

...and their are former Captains who, due to the age 60 rule, elected to continue working as a Flight Engineer....

User currently offlineFredT From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 2185 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5130 times:

'Are Flight Engineers "real" Pilots?'

No, they are skilled professionals.

*dives for cover as a hailstorm of Jeppesen binders comes flying*  Wink



I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13800 posts, RR: 63
Reply 5, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5012 times:

You have to distinguish between PFEs (Professional flight engineers), who often have a maintenance background and second officers (pilots in training). While the first ones are actually capable of doing troubleshooting in flight and were often used to do and sign off maintenance on outstations, where there was no regular MX (it could happen that the crew had e.g. to change a wheel, Condor e.g. carried a flight kit of two spare wheels (1 nose, one main), a standard mechanic´s tool box, torque wrenches, a bottle jack and a box of oil and hydraulic fluid cans on their DC-10s), the later one mostly only know when to press which button during which stage of the flight.

Jan


User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4867 times:

Thanks a lot for all your input! Now it is clear. Either way i am far too advanced with my studies to change the profession. But sitting in the back of the cockpit, turning fuel pumps on and off appealed to me on my search for a as far as possible smooth job with acceptable payment .... Big grin

Jan


User currently offlineMeister808 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 973 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4708 times:

I don't know how 'smooth' it would be job-security wise, since most operators are parking any airplanes that require an FE.

-Meister



Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31573 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4659 times:

What are FEs normally doing since most Aircraft have Two man Cockpit crew.Do they upgrade to F/Os or just choose another proffession.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineJetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4636 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 8):
What are FEs normally doing since most Aircraft have Two man Cockpit crew.Do they upgrade to F/Os or just choose another proffession

Some will prefer to stay as F/E, because there are still a lot of three crew aircraft flying, especially in the freighter world. Others may convert to pilots. It depends on many factors, such as age, willingness to migrate, medical issues, etc. So you can't really generalise on what is normal.



The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31573 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4602 times:

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 9):

Some will prefer to stay as F/E, because there are still a lot of three crew aircraft flying, especially in the freighter world. Others may convert to pilots. It depends on many factors, such as age, willingness to migrate, medical issues, etc. So you can't really generalise on what is normal.

What would be the steps in general to convert from FE to F/O.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineDoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3381 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 12 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4606 times:

To upgrade to FO they would need an AMEL commercial pilots license with an intrument rating. Most US carriers that fly 3 man crews (NWA, FedEx, UPS, DHL), hire pilots that start out in the FE seat. I believe Planet (an FL based 727 charter operator) use MX guys like MD11 was talking about.


When in doubt, one B pump off
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