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Reading A Flight Plan  
User currently offlineBruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5051 posts, RR: 15
Posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 14838 times:

I'm trying to understand flight plans. I think I've got it almost figured out but not sure of a few things. here is a sample flight plan from one of the online flight trackers for a fairly short flight arriving at my home airport:

DTW..LAYNE.DXO006.BNNET.YQG341.DIRKS.J38.GRB/0052

Now I've looked up the navaids and fixes. First of all, what is the difference between one dot and two dots?

Ok. So here goes. Plane leaves DTW flying to LAYNE on the 006 radial of DXO. "LAYNE" is located according to my map in the northern suburbs of Detroit....and DXO is the Detroit VOR near the airport, so it appears that LAYNE is on a heading of 006 from DXO. Is that what it means when there are numbers following a fix?

Then it would turn north and head toward BNNET which is located near Lapeer, MI (according to the lat/long). Then, the plane would turn northwestward onto the 341 radial of YQG which is in Windsor, Ontraio and on to the next point which is DIRKS, which is kind of SE of Saginaw. From there I would guess that it is a straight run? I think that J38 is an airway and seeing how there are no other fixes then they would go all the way on J38? (its 239 miles according to my map).

Now GRB is my airport....but what does 0052 mean? When they approach GRB on the airway they would be going NW...so why the 52 heading? (Or is that a heading?)


bruce


Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6013 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 14785 times:

If you got it from an online flight tracker, then this is an internal ATC routing. The filed and cleared route is going to be different. Most likely this is an airborne reroute.

LAYNE intersection is a fix on the PALACE 2 departure out of DTW. Most likely, the route was filed via another fix, and ATC decided to change that plan (as they often do.)

The 0052 is the time enroute using the given route and filed true airspeed.



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User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 14778 times:

Quoting Bruce (Thread starter):
Now I've looked up the navaids and fixes. First of all, what is the difference between one dot and two dots?

A single dot is used between disimilar elements, and two dots ("direct") are used between similar elements, all for ATC computer requirements.

Examples:

VORs- PNH..GAG
VORs/Radials- TTT171..CLL334
VORs/Radials/DMEs- PGS085100..VIH261145
Airports- IAH..HOU
Intersections- STELL..DONIE
Victor Routes (Low altitude)- V123..V456
Jet Routes (High altitude)- J123..J456

All the above are similar elements, so there are two dots. The single dot is used when connecting two elements that are different from one another (from the above list) and are also used for SIDs/DPs and STARs.

DP/SID- DFW.JPOOL3.WINDU
STAR- SGF.TRAKE8.STL

As Goldenshield mentioned, 0052 is the enroute time. The two digits on the right are minutes, the two on the left are hours. Thus 0052 is 52 minutes, 0152 is 1 hour and 52 minutes, and 1052 is ten hours and 52 minutes.

Hope this helps...


User currently offline3201 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 14708 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 1):

The 0052 is the time enroute using the given route and filed true airspeed.

Careful -- it is indeed the planned time enroute, but it's as calculated and supplied by the operator when filing the plan. It should actually not match up with the planned distance and the filed initial cruise TAS, unless you plan to climb and descend as fast as you cruise.


User currently offlineBruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5051 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 14414 times:

Ok, another question. What does the numbers mean that are next to a VOR? For example, part of a flight plan:

DLH231140..GRB288082

bruce



Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
User currently offlineWoodreau From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1037 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 14410 times:

Hi Bruce,

It's probably a Place-Bearing-Distance Waypoint.

So in your case

DLH231140

DLH (Place) 231 (Bearing) 140 (Distance)

So from the DLH navaid (probably a VOR)
on the R-231 or 231 degree radial (magnetic)
140nm

Same from GRB288082
GRB vor - R288 - 82nm



Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
User currently offlineBruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5051 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 14404 times:

Could it possibly be the other way around? DLH = Duluth, MN. The Distance from Duluth to here in Green Bay is way more than 140 miles - in fact, it is 245 on my map which is pretty close to the "231" part of the number...

so that would make "140" as the heading??? I can see that. We are SE of Duluth.

but in the next number I don't understand. The next waypoint after my example was ECK which is Peck, Michigan - and that is about 280 miles straight from here which is close enough to the "288" part of the number. But "082"??? On the map Peck seems to be southeast/east of here, not an 82 degree heading. 82 is just slightly north of due east.

bruce



Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5408 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 14396 times:

It is VOR, Radial, Distance and defines a waypoint.

You are getting mixed up with Radial and Heading, and also GRB288082 is specifying a location (waypoint), not that you should be 'flying' the 288 radial for 82 miles.

So...this waypoint is (as already correctly mentioned), a point on GRB 288 degree radial, 82 nm out.

Remember, not that it is relevant in this case, but if you are actually tracking the 288 degree radial inbound, you are heading 108 degrees!

Jimbo

[Edited 2005-05-25 18:20:09]


I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineLemmy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 14395 times:

Obliquely related question about STARs:

Let's say I'm filing a flight plan from BOS to JFK, and I'm going to fly the Kennebunk 4 arrival into Kennedy. The problem is that the beginning of this STAR is 90 miles in the opposite direction from my departure point.

I'm assuming that I can jump into the STAR at some intermediate point (PVD, perhaps). If so, how do I notate that in a flight plan?



I am a patient boy ...
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 14390 times:

>>>so that would make "140" as the heading??? I can see that. We are SE of Duluth.

No.

"DLH231140..GRB288082" is direct from one point-in-space to another point-in-space.

The first point is 140NM (not SM) from Duluth on their 231 degree radial.

The second point is 82NM (not SM) from Green Bay on their 288 degree radial.


>>>The Distance from Duluth to here in Green Bay

...is immaterial, since you're not measuring the distance from DLH-GRB, just two points that -reference- both DLH and GRB.

Example: ABC and XYZ are exactly 200NM apart, ABC on the west, XYZ on the east. If your flight plan overflies them using a segment identified as ABC270050..XYZ090050, the difference between those two points-in-space is -300NM-


User currently offlineBruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5051 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 14376 times:

Ahhhh that makes more sense, now if I extend the line made by connecting those 2 points it is basically right over Peck (ECK) which is the next waypoint.... very interesting stuff.

bruce



Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
User currently offlineWoodreau From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1037 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 14371 times:

Quoting Lemmy (Reply 8):
Let's say I'm filing a flight plan from BOS to JFK, and I'm going to fly the Kennebunk 4 arrival into Kennedy. The problem is that the beginning of this STAR is 90 miles in the opposite direction from my departure point.

I'm assuming that I can jump into the STAR at some intermediate point (PVD, perhaps). If so, how do I notate that in a flight plan?

You probably aren't going to use the Kennebunk STAR as it's probably meant to be used for flights coming from over the North Atlantic. There is a notation on the Kennebunk arrival that inertial navigation equipment is required.

Instead for a flight that short, if you filed IFR, you'd use the TEC (tower enroute control) routes or you would use the low-altitude preferred routes.

I don't have an Northeast AFD handy, the TEC and preferred routes are in there.

[Edited 2005-05-25 19:33:53]


Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6013 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 14346 times:

After doing some research, I've found what they want you to file.

BOS LUCOS SEY067 SEY PARCH CCC ROBER JFK

Now, whether or not this is a TEC route, I can't tell, as there is no TEC assignment to it.



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User currently offlineLemmy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 14328 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 12):
BOS LUCOS SEY067 SEY PARCH CCC ROBER JFK

That makes more sense. I've never looked through the AFD, but I'll find one and check it out.

Thanks for the info!



I am a patient boy ...
User currently offlineZID From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 294 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14214 times:

To clarify OPNLguy's dot explanation somewhat. He is right about two dots between similar elements and one dot between dissimilar elements. But the two types of data connected by dots are any and all fixes (where you're going to or coming from - airport, VOR, waypoint, radial/DME fix, or an intersection) and any and all routes (how you're getting there - airways or radials). Of course if you're going direct then there is no "route" per se, so you'd just have you're two fixes separated by two dots.

So not only would you need two dots between two NAVAIDS or two airways but also between a NAVAID and an intersection, or between a radial/DME fix and any waypoint, or between an airway and a VOR radial. You would also just need one dot between an intersection and an airway, or between a radial/DME fix and a radial.

Examples:

SDF..IIU.V4.HYK..VXV.MACEY2.ATL

Louisville International Airport (FIX) .. Louisville VORTAC (FIX) . Victor 4 (ROUTE) . Lexington VORTAC (FIX) .. Volunteer VORTAC (FIX) . MACEY2 Arrival (ROUTE) . Atlanta Hartsfield/Jackson International Airport (FIX)

LEX..HYK.HYK190..V310.LOZ.V97.WEEDY..VXV330015.VXV330.VXV..TYS

Lexington Bluegrass Airport (FIX) .. Lexington VORTAC (FIX) . Lexington 190 degree radial (ROUTE) .. Victor 310 (ROUTE) . London VORTAC (FIX) . Victor 97 (ROUTE) . WEEDY Intersection (FIX) .. Volunteer VORTAC 330 Radial 15 DME Fix (FIX) . Volunteer VORTAC 330 Radial (ROUTE) . Volunteer VORTAC (FIX) .. Knoxville McGee Tyson Airport (FIX)



I'm not joking! This is my job!
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 14195 times:

ZID, you are, of course, correct. For some reason, I didn't list any examples of dissimilar dot use, other than the SID/DP and STAR examples...

Thanks for clarifying...


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