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777 Take-off - At What Altitude Can I 'relax'?  
User currently offlineVisionfusion From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 20 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11893 times:

hello,

I am very afraid at take-off, despite being a frequent flier. When I fly I try to sit in the same seat/row so the sounds are similar between flights on the same a/c type and I watch the flight progress screens intently on take off.

I'm looking for some tech information that might help me intellectually process my fear...

I have always wondered at what altitude after take off does one pass the 'critical' phase of climb? I suppose I'm asking - at what altitude can the pilot viably turn the a/c around to land if necessary? (assuming they don't go on to the next airport they can land at). Can a heavy jet like a 777 'glide' and if so, at what altitude does this become possible/useful?

Sorry if these are silly questions or if they've been asked before - I've looked, but didn't find any answers so far.

Thank you!

78 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYikes! From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11883 times:

Quoting Visionfusion (Thread starter):
I have always wondered at what altitude after take off does one pass the 'critical' phase of climb?

Hiya Visionfusion: Great Handle! Are you in the cinematic arts? Or is that just another name for tunnel vision? ha ha...just kidding.

The FAA "end of second segment climb" is a minimum of 400 feet above ground level. That is about 15 seconds from when the main wheels leave the ground. It is the mandated height above which the takeoff becomes less critical. Airliners reach this height with their pilots trained to the Max in abnormal circumstances including but not limited to an engine failure, an onboard fire, or a controllability issue (i.e. deployed thrust reverser).

So if you need to be "white knuckled", this is the time. 15 seconds after liftoff from terra firma.

If it's any help, pilots don't get their qualification unless they are able to recover from scenarios like this on a 6 month periodic basis in an FAA or equivalent approved simulator.

Hope that eases the pain...


User currently offlineArmitageShanks From UK - England, joined Dec 2003, 3559 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11879 times:

The pilot can always turn the aircraft around to land, no matter what stage of flight it's in. You might have to dump some fuel first, but an emergency landing is always an option.

However, I would think the very critical climb would be over a minute or two after takeoff. After that I would think it would not be that much of an issue if a "normal" problem occurred (engine out, pressurize problem, etc).

Pilots are trained to handle problems when they arise and can handle just about anything during any part of the flight.


User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11820 times:

At rotation. Once you hit rotation, you will know for certain that you are going flying. The possibility of an engine failure has been planned for in the aircraft design and the takeoff planning. At rotation, you will know that the aircraft has suffucient performance to clear obstacles. Maybe not by much, but there will be clearence. In the unlikely event of a dual engine failure, most transport catagory aircraft glide fairly well. Anything that generates lift will also glide. The distance available to glide is a primarily a function of altitude, with other factors such as weight, wind, airspeed, and technique also playing roles. If you think a dual engine failure is a likely possibility for your flight, then go buy a lottery ticket. The odds of your aircraft suffering a dual engine failure in a possition where no safe landing is possible are probably about the same as being stuck and killed by a meteor.


Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineTheBigOne From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 11764 times:

Hi VisionFusion - someone gave me this advice once about flying, and it always helps me relax.

If you think you need to worry - relax all is well.
If you think your going to die - the pilots are well in control of the situation.
If you can't think of anything except your nearest and dearest - start worrying!

Hope that helps you!



Reach for the stars - they are closer than you think!
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 915 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 11707 times:

Quoting Visionfusion (Thread starter):
Can a heavy jet like a 777 'glide' and if so, at what altitude does this become possible/useful?

If a 777 loses all power at cruise altitude, it can glide for many miles. An A330-200 once lost all engine power over the Atlantic and was able to glide to a nearby airport and land successfuly. Note that the probability for such an event on an ETOPS 777 is statistically impossible within our lifetime...

But if it *did* happen, a 777 at cruise would average about glide about 20 ft forwad for every 1ft in altitude it lost. This translates to about 100 usable miles....

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/safety/flash.html

Remember that modern aircraft have *in-frickin-credible* safety standards and statistics. Not a single 777 has been lost in-service and the airplane is nearly a decade old. Ditto for such airplanes as the A330, A340, and 737NG.


User currently offlineHaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2090 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11651 times:

Just a small clarification... the A-330 didn't glide to a 'nearby' airport, but rather one over 100 miles away.

And ArmitageShanks, I think it is a bit misleading to say that pilots 'can turn an aircraft around to land at any stage of flight'. There would have to be a very sufficient altitude for an airliner to have the luxury of turning back towards the airport if something happened right after take off.

I don't have the magic number Vision on when you should feel relaxed, but the higher you are the more options the pilot has at his disposal. By 10,000' you are pretty golden imo.

[Edited 2005-04-26 06:51:07]


Here Here for Severe Clear!
User currently offline727EMflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 11612 times:

Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 6):
it is a bit misleading to say that pilots 'can turn an aircraft around to land at any stage of flight

Visionfusion,
Welcome to A.net! Hopefully we can come together and help you allevieate some of your fear.
As HaveBlue said, you can't really turn around. If there is a problem (100% engine failure) immedieately after take off that warrants landing it is near impossible for the pilots, no matter how skilled, to get the plane back down on the runway they just lifted off from, and trying to would likely be more detrimental than if the pilot just flew straight. That is exactly what your flight crew would do, continue on and set the plane down on the most likely piece of real estate in front of you. Pilots are taught from day one to start looking for an emergency landing site, and there are more ideal places out there than you might imagine! And as others have said, the government regulations and airline industry standards have so many checks built in that should trouble arise it will be spotted early enough that no harm will come to anyone. Next time your flight is delayed due to a burnt out light bulb in the cockpit you can rejoice! That light bulb probably illuminates an indication that will keep you safe and the crew will never chance not KNOWING that you will be safe.

Now that I've rambled, how about a suggestion that can conquer your fear for good! It will take a lot of courage from you, but go visit your local flight school and ask for an introductory flight. It costs very little, is fairly quick, and can be a real eye opener. Tell ask for an instructor who is accustomed to dealing with folks who are a little unsure. You will see the airplane, see how everything works, sit in the pilot's seat and best of all, you will make the airplane take off. It can be an eye opener that will set you at ease when you see how easy it really is. But make sure it is something you can handle before you try.

Good luck and happy flying!


User currently offlineBuckFifty From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1316 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 11535 times:

Quoting HaveBlue (Reply 6):
And ArmitageShanks, I think it is a bit misleading to say that pilots 'can turn an aircraft around to land at any stage of flight'. There would have to be a very sufficient altitude for an airliner to have the luxury of turning back towards the airport if something happened right after take off.

Nowadays, unless if you're flying a single, chances are, most airliners will be able to continue a takeoff past V1 with a failed engine, climb, dump fuel, and turn back. No such thing as a golden altitude involved.

However, failures occur in a variety of ways at different altitudes, with different survivability rates. I agree with Yikes' assessment on this matter. As long as you can get airborne past V2, things generally are a lot easier to deal with.


User currently offlineKay From France, joined Mar 2002, 1884 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11527 times:

I am glad to see the correction of the last posters regarding turning around and landing. When low in altitude, on failure of all the engines, turning around is never an option.

Regarding airliners (the original question), there is no real danger since none are single engine aircraft (or light piston twins). That is where turning around *is* possible. If one engine fails after a specific speed in the take-off roll, take-off will be continued, sufficient climb will theoretically be possible, followed by dumping fuel and coming back. In real life, this has happened many times and the success rate is probably more than 75%, with the exception being hot airfields in disadvantageous conditions (I think of a 737 on one engine that had to do an unsuccessful ditching when back on downwind, a few years ago).

However, in General Aviation, things are different, and I consider the biggest overlooked threat to pilots to be the danger of an engine failure after take-off.
As opposed to many many other scenarios, an engine failure on climb-out leaves the best pilot with no options. If it happens at less than a comfortable altitude (perhaps 400~500 feet?) any attempt to turn the aircraft back will end up in a spin and crash because of the loss of altitude related to turning without power. The only possibility is to steer the aircraft a maximum of 15degrees either left or right, towards the emergency landing site of choice...


As I read once: "after taking off, be amazed that the engine did not fail".


But all this is about single-engine aircraft (and probably light piston twins, where the possibility of flying one engine is many times purely hypothetical).
Regarding the original question: there is almost nothing to worry about.

The best way to master the fear of flying is to do a PPL. Just focus your enthusiasm for aviation into the best investment you will ever do in your life.


Kay


User currently offlineFutureUApilot From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1365 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11514 times:

Hey Visionfusion, whelcome to Airliners.net

First off, I was scared of flying when I was littler, and Takeoff scared me the most of all. After joining A.net I talked to some people here and they helped me get to the source of my fears. At takeoff, the reason it makes people nervious is because their enviorment around them has changed: it is suddenly louder, your moving faster, the aircraft may shudder and vibrate, but that's no different than driving your car down the highway at 60mph as opposed to 25mph. One of the facts I learned was this: Immagine that you were crusin down the highway, at a high speed, and a child ran accross the road. You would slam on the breaks and probably swerve off the road. It could turn out to be a serious accident. Now imagine what would happen if you had the ability to practice everything beforehand. Multiple times. You would be able to control the vehicle and know exactly how to react. Now immagine if you had to do that every year perfect or you would loose your drivers licence. This is what pilots do, if they can't do it right, then they don't fly at all. Any situation and obsticle they have had practice for. Hope this helps!!!

-Sam



The Pilot is the highest form of life on Earth!
User currently offlineVisionfusion From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 11321 times:

You guys (and gals) are fantastic - what a great group - thank you so much!

Looking at the variety of great comments, it looks like there's no golden rule, but that makes sense - it's like it gets better the further/higher you go without problems. Would it be something like this for loss of engine power?

V1 - okay if your pilot aborts promptly
VR - not good
V2 - very bad news indeed if you're under 400ft (before about 15 seconds from lift-off)
1000ft+ altitude looking better all the time the higher you get
10,000ft+ - enough altitude for more viable options.

My next related question to all this is:

V2 - what kind of speed range is that for a 777?

I know this will depend on the weight, but it would be good to know the ballpark - speed is one of the things I look at anxiously on the monitors during take off - terrified that the speed will start to drop while climbing...

I'm flying tomorrow on a 777 out of LGW, it's a trip I do many times a year, but it never gets easier until we're level, the seatbelt sign is off and I can see the clouds beneath us!

Thanks again everyone - and stand by for some really silly landing questions at some point soon  Smile

Visionfusion


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 12, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 11314 times:

Quoting Visionfusion (Reply 11):

Looking at the variety of great comments, it looks like there's no golden rule, but that makes sense - it's like it gets better the further/higher you go without problems. Would it be something like this for loss of engine power?

V1 - okay if your pilot aborts promptly
VR - not good
V2 - very bad news indeed if you're under 400ft (before about 15 seconds from lift-off)
1000ft+ altitude looking better all the time the higher you get
10,000ft+ - enough altitude for more viable options.

The worst time for engine failure is anytime between V1 and 400ft. But I wouldn't call it "very bad news indeed" unless the wing was also on fire or something. If there is something pilots are trained to do, it's handling engine failures on takeoff. Remember that quite a few of the systems redundancies and handling procedures are aimed at minimizing risk in this phase.


Note that even an emergency event before V1 may not warrant emergency braking. Typically, if anything untoward should happen under 80 knots, the pilots will stop the takeoff. Between 80 knots and V1, they will only stop for engine failure, fire and a couple of other things. Braking when above 80 knots has dangers in itself. Not critical, but it's still usually less dangerous to continue the takeoff. Above V1, you only want to stop if you have serious doubts the plane will fly, knowing that the aircraft may run out of runway, not to mention set the wheels on fire. I say "may" because the numbers are always quite conservative and have at least a 33% fudge factor.


I fly several times a week and used to be a bit of a white knuckle flyer (not anymore) so I know exactly how you feel. What helped me back in those days was telling an F/A that I was a bit of a nervous flier and asking if the pilots had time to say hi for a very short visit. On long haul, a 15-30 second visit to the cockpit can normally be squeezed in. Calmed me right down. You don't even have to talk about fear of flying. Just ask them which way we're flying out, what kind of speed rotation is at today, etc... Knowing that they have full control, and being aware of which direction the first turn is likely to be, gave me back the illusion of control. Just knowing what they looked like made me confident.

Have fun on your next flight!

Barring that, there's always alcohol  Wink



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 11294 times:

I have always wondered at what altitude after take off does one pass the 'critical' phase of climb?

..the second you lock your car and walk into the terminal..!!! You are thousands of times more likely to be in an accident while driving to the airport then you are in any stage of flight. Period and of story..facts back this up.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineRaginMav From United States of America, joined May 2004, 375 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 11283 times:

I read a great article in Business and Commercial Aviation a couple weeks ago regarding High-Speed Rejected Take-offs. I don't recall the percentages, but in business jets a large portion of RTO's were actually caused by traffic conflicts on the runway, as opposed to the engine failures that the pilots train for (I think it was a study of reports in the ASRS database). I would assume a similar percentage for airlines, as they largely use the same airports as the business jets.

And yes I agree with the 80 knot rule. Is anyone familiar with the Hawker 800? I was told that RTO above 80 kts in that aircraft means a mandatory brake inspection!

Quoting 727EMflyer (Reply 7):
If there is a problem (100% engine failure) immedieately after take off that warrants landing it is near impossible for the pilots, no matter how skilled, to get the plane back down on the runway they just lifted off from, and trying to would likely be more detrimental than if the pilot just flew straight

What about the L-1011 in New York (JFK??) that was off the ground, told he was on fire and put it back down on the runway? I can't remember the details, anyone else know details?

I think the most comforting thing about riding in the 777 is the obvious experience of the crew. Last week I took (and passed!) my private pilot check ride (YIPEE!!!!!). The examiner: a UA 777 First Officer. This guy is the definition of professional pilot, as far as I'm concerned. He knows his stuff up down left and right (obviously), as do all pilots at that level!


User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4183 posts, RR: 37
Reply 15, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 11238 times:

V1 - okay if your pilot aborts promptly
VR - not good
V2 - very bad news indeed if you're under 400ft (before about 15 seconds from lift-off)
1000ft+ altitude looking better all the time the higher you get
10,000ft+ - enough altitude for more viable options.



The above is 100% incorrect actually

After V1 we are commited to takeoff. You don't abort after V1 unless you like visiting gas stations across the street a la Southwest (that wasn't an abort..but you get the idea). The airplane is guaranteed to be able to accelerate and climb out with required obstacle clearance with an engine failure after V1.

In othe words... in a jet... an engine out really isn't a big deal. She climbs a bit slower (it actually slows things down to a bit less of a mind numbing rate haha)... and you're gonna be making an early visit back to the airport (no fuel dumping in the CRJ.. just go through the checklist and land).


I'll put it this way...we can actually have a thrust reverser deploy at V1 and continue with required climb performance.



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 11230 times:

Unless you look out your window and see something like those Air France Concorde passengers saw...I wouldn't worry about it too much.

User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 11153 times:

Takeoff is the easiest part for the pilots but for the passengers it is the worst part. On the other hand landing is the best part for passengers but it is the hardest for pilots. As long as you are in the air you can control the plane. The most difficult circumstance is engine blowing after you have to takeoff but you are still on the ground. Depending on the condition it might be hard for the pilots to recover on take-off. Chances of all these elements occuring at the same exact time are low so enjoy the flight.

User currently offlineZOTAN From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 602 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 11031 times:

Always remember that the plane is designed to fly, its wants to stay off the ground. A quick talk to the pilots up front before the flight can do wonders also. Asking if you will first turn left or right can really help out. I used to be a nervous flyer, and one thing that really helped was talking to the pilots before the flight.

User currently offlineFlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7006 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 10813 times:

Remember the chances of dual engine loss must be atleast 1,000,000,000 to 1. A single engine failure is not a major problem. Before V1 pilots abort. After V1 pilots fly and than land. After around um lets say 5,000ft you should calm down.
Also when you start hearing the engines clam down a little. Thats when I know everything is going good.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineMsl747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 412 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 10801 times:

From Boeing:
U.S. traffic accident fatalities in 2000: 41,800
Commercial airplane fatalities in 2000: 878

Look, the chances of anything going wrong are astronomically high, and even *if* something should happen, the pilots are incredibly well trained, and the aircraft is put through extreme testing before it is even allowed to fly. So sit back, relax, and enjoy your flight! airplane  bigthumbsup 

-Msl747



Commercial Pilot Certificate: Single and Multi-Engine Land; Instrument Airplane
User currently offlineTimT From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10736 times:

Just listen for the sounds and feel of the landing gear retracting- at that point the aircraft has established a positive rate of climb. Personally, after the door is shut I seem to always fall asleep.

User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10709 times:

Why worry? If anything happens there's nothing you can do about it anyway.
There's highly trained professionals up front who have years of training and experience between them including every scenario that ever happened or someone could dream up as possibly happening at some point in the future.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 23, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10698 times:

It's funny how many here quote stats and safety records. If you've been a white-knuckle flier, you will know this may help, or it may not. Having a lot of knowledge frequently makes the situation worse. It's not logical.

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 15):

After V1 we are commited to takeoff. You don't abort after V1 unless you like visiting gas stations across the street a la Southwest (that wasn't an abort..but you get the idea). The airplane is guaranteed to be able to accelerate and climb out with required obstacle clearance with an engine failure after V1.

Well, if all engines fail after V1 you will probably brake in any case  Wink



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineChazzerguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 277 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 12 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 10663 times:

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 3):
At rotation. Once you hit rotation, you will know for certain that you are going flying.

I'm no aviation expert or engineer, but I don't think you are neccessarily "in the clear" once you rotate... The Chicago DC-10 that crashed managed to rotate and get airborne, only to crash moments later... The MK 747F that crashed up in Canada late last year managed to rotate, but did not get significantly airborne, if at all... The NWA DC-9 that crashed in Detroit after the flight crew forgot to set flaps managed to rotate, but only got a few feet off the ground... But perhaps I am misinterpretting what you are saying.

Visionfusion, my wife is petrified of flying and you can ply her with all the stats and probabilities in the world, and it makes no difference... So I think I know where you are coming from... But I believe statistically speaking the overwhelming majority of accidents occur either on airport property or within a very few miles of airport property... So in my layman's mind I would say once you are 30 seconds off the ground, you are statistically very unlikely to crash.


25 Kay : I once thought take-offs are more scary than landings as well, because as someone mentioned before, there is a big change in the environment. The only
26 Lowrider : The DC10 did fly, but I submit that that they would have probably crashed from almost any altitude. So in the case of that aircraft, there was no "sa
27 Post contains images Starlionblue : This is not so. The DC-10 accident at ORD was quite survivable, but the plane was damned by the absence of slat retraction sensors (yes, among other
28 Jetlagged : I'd say once the flaps are retracted and the aircraft starts to accelerate you can be sure nothing has gone wrong and relax. However, I'd recommend re
29 HAWK21M : With Todays Aircraft build to have Backups systems,The probability of something going wrong & not tackable is very rare. Enjoy the ride. regds MEL
30 Mirrodie : One of the Av magazines that I read shows a monthly report of recent accidents. Most of the underlying cuases of these accidents are invariably pilot
31 Starlionblue : Training, training, training and more training. And then some more training. It's quite spectacular what kind of weird emergencies pilots train for (
32 Jetlagged : Training, training and then some more training. Where pilot error is a factor, the reason why and the correct action needs to be taught during recurre
33 Pope : Remember this, any time after you hit V1, the airplane has enough power to take off even if the engine failed at that moment. That implies that on a t
34 C133 : Every transport aircraft is certificated to stop within the remaining runway from any speed at or below V1 and to complete take-off successfully with
35 AsstChiefMark : That's what I go by. I watch the slats, too. Mark
36 Jake056 : I am a nervous flyer, no doubt about it. Best experience I ever had was in a prop regional plane. I don't remember the name of the airline or the a/c.
37 Jwenting : I've survived Aeroflot and before that a crash landing (OK. so it was a glider), what is left to be nervous about?
38 CRJ200Mechanic : I used to be terrified to fly. You know what I did. I became a mechanic. Now I understand them more, so when I hear noises, I usually know what it is.
39 HAWK21M : Like what. regds MEL
40 CRJ200Mechanic : It was a thump noise under me feet right after rotation. I was sitting in 6E first class on a 738
41 9VSRH : 135-150 knots (not sure MPH or KMPH)
42 Starlionblue : Don't the flakes get soggy when you pour Miller on them?
43 Post contains images Woodreau : It's neither... a knot is 1 nautical mile per hour, so its not MPH or km/h.
44 Post contains links Starlionblue : If I remember this correctly: - The nautical mile is related to degrees of arc. - The statute mile derives (a long time ago) from the milia passum (1
45 XFSUgimpLB41X : 1 knot is 1.15 statute miles per hour.
46 CRJ200Mechanic : I didn't pour them into the frosted flakes, I still used milk. I just enjoyed the miller on the side
47 Jetlagged : A nautical mile is equivalent to 1 minute of latitude at the earth's surface. So there are 60 nautical miles for every degree of latitude. Traditiona
48 Post contains images HAWK21M : You use Sugared Flakes or Plain regds MEL
49 CRJ200Mechanic : They were frosted
50 Gearup : Hmmm, interesting combination.
51 VSLover : related to the topic, what would you say to a person like me who still worries when departing from JFK in a "small" plane like a CRJ, a320, or bigger
52 Post contains images Visionfusion : Hi everyone, I'm back from my latest trip! Thanks for all the feedback - it has really helped I'm back from my LGW-IAH return on CO and I'm still in o
53 Brons2 : frosted flakes and beer are good for a hangover....
54 Downingbarry : Perhaps someone can correct me, but I remember when on a school visit to an LGW hangar a few years back we looked at the IT systems running a 777. The
55 Pilotpip : Consider that this happened once. Are you afraid of sucking a chunk of tire into an engine or having one hit the underside of the wing causing a fuel
56 Post contains images Milan320 : Ahh that's some good advice, Starlionblue. What worked for me (although I was never really that afraid of flying - but at times a little bit paranoid
57 Prebennorholm : Huh, so many technical things to worry about, even when we have paid highly trained crews a decent salary to do their job just right. I tend to relax
58 Lemmy : Wow. That'll wake you up. What's the procedure for that? I can imagine that an RJ might be tough because, since you don't get a lot of yaw (or maybe
59 Post contains images Woodreau : Well Idle the affected engine, Emergency Stow the thrust reverser If it still doesn't stow: Shutdown affected engine Land at nearest suitable airport
60 Molykote : Mistakes happen. I've done research on a number of post-V1 rejects. I can't share any further information however. I say this not to discredit any pi
61 Starlionblue : I always take my shoes off on planes.I think most people's feet don't smell assuming they wear clean socks and have taken a shower in the morning. Fr
62 Molykote : Previous connecting flight for me.....
63 Alias1024 : Are you talking about the TWA? I think they aborted after liftoff because of a faulty AOA probe, which generated a stick-shaker on one of the pilot's
64 CastleIsland : Nose gear retraction most likely. Now, I suppose Miller Lite is an OK substitution for skim milk, but I use 2% milk on cereal, so I would have gone w
65 JBirdAV8r : Maybe it was the nose wheel strut going to full extension after it left the ground?
66 Post contains images Texfly101 : That's probably about the best advise that you could follow. Once you know what is going on and understand the what's why's and when's, things start
67 Mir : Here's when I'd relax: After you take off, you'll feel the plane climb out for about a minute or two, and then you'll feel a little sinking feeling. T
68 Starlionblue : I think Mir was referring to fatalities. Several 340s have in fact been written off for various reasons. But no fatalities for 777/330/340/737NG in s
69 Post contains images Boeing Nut : It is often that a post here gets sidetracked with, very often, sometimes nasty, overtones. I must say that this one was very refreshing! I also want
70 Pihero : Have you thought of going through an airline anti-stress program -or whatever they name it ?-. It's a one or two days-course in which you meet fellow
71 Starlionblue : Hear hear. SAS (among others) runs a two day program for about $1000 which includes a "graduation flight" as well as the things you mentioned. And BT
72 Post contains links MissedApproach : Nope, I do too. Never bother counting rows to the exit though- I'm not gonna remember that in an emergency! I just check to see if there's a seating
73 Pihero : Those are the most often mentioned symptoms of fear of flying. Add to them the side vision -i.e. incapacity to see where I'm going - and the perceive
74 Starlionblue : Pihero hits the nail on the head. Talking to the pilots for two minutes before the flight, and seeing how they certainly aren't stressed out, used to
75 Post contains images N600RR : It doesn't get much better than that. And many A.netters say the "Golden Age" of aviation is behind us... It could've been the pax in 5E with the Ric
76 SkySurfer : Just to say, i remember watching a docu of Monarch Airlines back in the late 90's and the captain gave a great briefing to his first officer, he said
77 Post contains images DeltaGator : I would say when you reach the top of descent. Then you need to start worrying about the landing. Welcome aboard by the way. As much as I fly I alway
78 Post contains images Starlionblue : At which point Cisco probably blames bad handling or environmentals or something. Important fact about statistics: Just because it has a mean time be
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