Kay From France, joined Mar 2002, 1884 posts, RR: 3 Posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2131 times:
Tomorrow at around 10h30 local time, the Airbus A380 will take its maiden flight in Toulouse.
It will take off towards the North, turn West towards the wineries, overfly the Atlantic and come back to land. The flight will be between 1.5 and 4 hours.
My question is about maiden flights in general: how can such complex untested machine be thrown out to a take-off without at least making sure that they do get airborne and are controllable first?
For example: Have the plane roll for take-off, rotate, get airborne, and then flare and land, all on a huge specially designed runway (twice the normal length). That way, engine failurres, system failures and everything else will not cause a disaster. After that, a longer flight will be planned, and then further and further.
I never understood the lack of need to test take-off and landing first before planning a 4 hour flight with an untested machine.
Imagine testing a formula 1 car on a track where if the car fails, it will free-fall 10,000 feet and have to crash.
SATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2075 times:
Quoting Kay (Thread starter): My question is about maiden flights in general: how can such complex untested machine be thrown out to a take-off without at least making sure that they do get airborne and are controllable first?
Quoting Kay (Thread starter): For example: Have the plane roll for take-off, rotate, get airborne, and then flare and land, all on a huge specially designed runway (twice the normal length). That way, engine failurres, system failures and everything else will not cause a disaster. After that, a longer flight will be planned, and then further and further
Essentially that's what happens during the high speed taxi tests except for, usually, the actual takeoff. Once it's airborne and flying, and you've taken the risks, you may as well fly for a bit and explore landing characteristics before you attempt the landing.
RedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4175 posts, RR: 30 Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2048 times:
Speaking of take-off, since the 380 will in fact be empty, or at least far below it's MGTOW, will the engines be run at full-throttle during the actual take-off run? Or, will they be run at somewhat less than full-throttle in order maximize the take-off run for purposes of extending the decision point for a go/no-go with regards to taking off?
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15870 posts, RR: 66 Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1981 times:
Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 3): Speaking of take-off, since the 380 will in fact be empty, or at least far below it's MGTOW, will the engines be run at full-throttle during the actual take-off run?
Probably, but AFAIK they are still derated well below their design output.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
AvionicMech From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 315 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1933 times:
Quoting Kay (Thread starter): My question is about maiden flights in general: how can such complex untested machine be thrown out to a take-off without at least making sure that they do get airborne and are controllable first?
I don't understand how you could make sure they are controllable and that they can get airborne without a take-off because to get airborne you have to take-off. I do know what you mean though, but you would be surprised quite how many of the aircrafts systems can be checked on the ground without needing to go flying. A lot of the flying is done during these flight tests is just to endurance test systems and items that need an air load on them, the rest can be checked on the ground where it is safer if things do happen to go wrong.
Espion007 From Denmark, joined Dec 2003, 1691 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1931 times:
The a380 will be loaded with full fuel for the first flight but i dont know about water balasts. Maybe the 2nd or 3rd flight.
My question is about maiden flights in general: how can such complex untested machine be thrown out to a take-off without at least making sure that they do get airborne and are controllable first?
Because there is one way to find out if its controllable.
This reminds me of a certain commercial that says near the beginning "its amazing what people will do when they have trust in their equipment".
AA173HEAVY From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 57 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1714 times:
It was truly awesome to watch! Lifted off so easily too. For those of you in the US, its on CNBC. The have left for now but will check back in and out and will definately be back for the landing.
Mr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2780 posts, RR: 15 Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1632 times:
Hi guys
I watched the takeoff this morning about an hour ago. It was really sweet to see. The test pilots didn't retract the landing gear after a positive rate of climb was confirmed. Obviously (I think) one of the first "In Flight" tests involves the airspeed limits for the gear being extended & for it's retraction.
>>EMBQA .... you said this .....
Enough already...!!! There is only 50 other A380 first flight threads running..!!!!
Take it easy, try to relax. This is the TECH FORUM as you know, and when aviation "history" is in the making, it's time to celebrate! I sure had a huge smile on my face when I watched the footage of the 380 taking off. It's a new airplane!!! Perhaps you don't like Airbus jets. Maybe you're not having a good day. Who knows? But, if you can......try to be happy about this flight. Also, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth .... I don't have that right. Also, I'd be very surprised if a post about this maiden flight wasn't done in this forum. Thanks for the post Kay.
>>, Kay, you stated .....
"My question is about maiden flights in general: how can such complex untested machine be thrown out to a take-off without at least making sure that they do get airborne and are controllable first?"
Kay, consider this ...... an airliner isn't designed by 3 year olds! As mentioned, there is only one way to find out if it will fly ....... Take off in the bird!
Remember, air tunnel tests & computer simulations, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, are done first. I suspect a special route of flight that keeps the aircraft away from towns below is part of the flight plan for safety reasons in case something does go very wrong. Those test pilots sure have parts!
Guys, today is a great day for aviation. I wonder how long it will be before the first A380 lands here in Toronto? That will hit the local news big time!
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1545 times:
Just Fantastic,The Lift off was Excellent looking.
Images of The A380 in Cleaned up mode cruising looked good too.
Did not see the Touchdown though.Will catch it on the news.
regds
MEL
Mr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2780 posts, RR: 15 Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1497 times:
Hi guys.
>> HAWK21M, I saw it flying while cleaned up on the local news at noon. They also showed it's landing from a hovering chopper, but as usual, they stopped the footage before it actually touched down. (I hate it when that happens!!! ) It was still about 10 feet above the runway and had floated past the touch down zone markings when the video stopped.
Here's a little info about the flight from a Toronto news website.........
"The takeoff was absolutely perfect," chief test pilot Jacques Rosay said over the radio about an hour into the flight. "The weather's wonderful."
The plane took off carrying six crewmembers and 20,000 kilograms of on-board instruments. The aircraft weighed in at 421 tonnes when it departed for its first trip – that’s only 75 per cent of its maximum authorized take off weight.
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From France, joined Mar 2002, 1884 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9286 posts, 
From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15870 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 315 posts, 
I do know what you mean though, but you would be surprised quite how many of the aircrafts systems can be checked on the ground without needing to go flying. A lot of the flying is done during these flight tests is just to endurance test systems and items that need an air load on them, the rest can be checked on the ground where it is safer if things do happen to go wrong.
From Denmark, joined Dec 2003, 1691 posts, 
From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1198 posts, 
From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, 
) It was still about 10 feet above the runway and had floated past the touch down zone markings when the video stopped.
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