RootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4179 posts, RR: 45 Posted (8 years 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3733 times:
Has there ever been any prototype of an airliner that can take off without needing to speed up on a runway such as the Harrier. I remeber boeing releasing some sort of model but I think its rather some private jet and haven't heard from it in a very long while.
Would it be possible to have some airliner take off in such a manner. Imagin, even the smalles small airports could hnandle big planes!
[Edited 2005-05-07 18:44:35]
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
Komododx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3678 times:
I'll try to do a search on google later, but I know there was a Brasilian business a/c (turboprop) that I saw in a Brasilian av magazine about 8yrs ago.
PM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6715 posts, RR: 66 Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3612 times:
In the 1970s Hawker Siddeley (aaah...) designed (OK "designed" = made a model of) the HS 141 which was a VTOL airliner designed to carry, I dunno, 100 or so, guessing by the photo I still have (unfortunately, not within 5,000 miles of where I sit).
Needless to say, it got no further than an idea...
This a/c is aimed more towards the business aviation market than the airline market, but I wouldn't be surprised if a small commercial air taxi service uses them in a few years down the road (The a/c is expected to be certified in 2007).
CORULEZ05 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3436 times:
I hope this doesn't become something EVERYONE does. I am sure you all agree with me on the fact that take-offs and landings are the funnest about flights. Especially the take-off. Taking off vertically would take that thrill away. If you want a vertical take-off, ride on a helicopter.
SATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3310 times:
Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter): Has there ever been any prototype of an airliner that can take off without needing to speed up on a runway such as the Harrier.
AeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1600 posts, RR: 52 Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3295 times:
The Armstrong Whitworth 681 was designed to be a four-engined VTOL military transport, capable of transonic cruise speeds. A lot of work was done on it in the early 1960s, but it never made it to flight.
Jetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2452 posts, RR: 17 Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3263 times:
The Fairey Rotodyne was a British autogyro prototype designed for city centre to city centre passenger transport. It could take off vertically because the main rotor could be powered by tip jets. For forward flight it had stub wings with turboprop engines.
It would have been great except (a) the British government at the time was trying to kill off the aviation industry and (b) the noise from the tip jets was ear splittingly painful, ruling out the city centre heliport concept.
JHSfan From Denmark, joined Apr 2004, 469 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3200 times:
Hindenburg didn't work very well, but that was not due to the blimp design. They just used the wrong gas.
But so far no one has been able to make a blimp that can substitute an airliner or helicopter in a pax context.
- JHSfan
Look at me, I´m riding high, I´m the airbornmaster of the sky...
Klaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 20850 posts, RR: 55 Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3176 times:
JHSfan: Hindenburg didn't work very well, but that was not due to the blimp design.
Zeppelins are not blimps; A Zeppelin has a rigid skeleton with internal gas cells, not a soft "balloon" that´s blown up to stabilize it like a blimp.
JHSfan: They just used the wrong gas.
Due to political maneuvering, not out of preference. They weren´t allowed to get helium from US sources, so they substituted hydrogen instead (again for political reasons, of course - the responsible thing to do would have been to just stop flying without a safe medium). The Lakehurst disaster was a relatively direct result of politics.
JHSfan: But so far no one has been able to make a blimp that can substitute an airliner or helicopter in a pax context.
I'm not an expert into what the term blimp means, sorry.
Quoting Klaus (Reply 18): They weren´t allowed to get helium from US sources
I know that they had no alternatives to hydrogen, if they wanted the Zeppelin to fly. I don't think that the Nazi-government would accept such a propaganda defeat (Hindenburg not flying that is). Unfortunately some people had to pay the price to that decision.
- JHSfan
Look at me, I´m riding high, I´m the airbornmaster of the sky...
Lemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3030 times:
Quoting JHSfan (Reply 19): I know that they had no alternatives to hydrogen, if they wanted the Zeppelin to fly. I don't think that the Nazi-government would accept such a propaganda defeat (Hindenburg not flying that is). Unfortunately some people had to pay the price to that decision.
Essentially, yes. The shame of it all was that the Hindenburg was designed for Helium from the start, and Dr. Eckner knew and feared that Hydrogen on the ship might lead to exactly the disaster that happened.
Shame too, such a beautiful machine.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
DeskPilot From Australia, joined Apr 2004, 767 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3023 times:
Quoting Klaus (Reply 18): Zeppelins are not blimps; A Zeppelin has a rigid skeleton with internal gas cells, not a soft "balloon" that´s blown up to stabilize it like a blimp.
Zeppelins were duralumin-internal-framed dirigibles. Derigables are steerable self-propelled airships.
By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
Jetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2452 posts, RR: 17 Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2925 times:
Quoting OzLAME (Reply 21): At the risk of being accused of being irrelevant 'blimp' is an old British Military acronym for Balloon, Limp.
Unlikely as Limp is hardly a military style word. It's also mixed up with the "real" wrong derivation (USN Airship Type B, Limp). Type B airships existed, but only after the term Blimp first appeared in written English. The term "blimp" is generally thought to be onomatopoeic, the sound the airship makes when you tap the balloon envelope. No-one knows for sure, but it's the most likely.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
25 B744F: Why couldn't the Nazis get helium from the US? They got oil from them (mainly the Rockafellers)
26 Lemurs: The US saw helium as a strategic resource at the time. They didn't want to share the technology to produce it on mass scales, and they didn't want to
29 Lehpron: Are you kidding? The thrust & the noise from a VSTOL approach would be directed downwards to keep it up as it slowed from wing flight, it would be lo
31 Sanjet: Wouldn't this be a problem for certification since it would enter the airline category? What happens if you have an engine failure?... You're supposed
32 LeanOfPeak: Sanjet, the B609's engines are cross-shafted so that either engine can power both props/rotors. I haven't done an analysis, so I can't say for sure wh
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