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Cessna 337 Time Logging - Not A Multi-engine?  
User currently offlineTripleDelta From Croatia, joined Jul 2004, 1123 posts, RR: 7
Posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8087 times:
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A group of friends and I were having a discussion about multi-engine a/c and ratings a few days ago and were commenting a Skymaster at the airfield. One of the more interesting hypotheses was that 337 time cannot be logged as multi-engine - apparently, as the explanation goes, due to the centerline-thrust concept, where the a/c does not behave like a classical twin in an engine-out situation i.e. no "asymmetric" problems.

This sounds pretty far-out to me, so perhaps someone can shed some light on the subject. If it has two engines, it is multi-engine - how do you log it then? When can you exactly log multi-engine time - and concerning the original topic - what IS multi-engine time anyway?  Wink


No plane, no gain.
9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8077 times:

In the US you would log multi engine time, annotating centerline thrust in your log.
This is a common issue for many military fighter pilots as well.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineLoggat From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7935 times:

Having a multi engine license (centerline thrust only) does not allow you to fly a conventional twin in the US. As SPREE34 said, you log it as multi with the annotation. You must get a separate multi engine rating to allow you to fly a conventional twin. However, if you get a conventional twin rating, you are able to fly a multi engine airplane with centerline thrust.


There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7762 times:

Yup it is a special notation in the log.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7752 times:
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When I was working at a small FBO, we had a pilot stop in for some twin training. He had been flying F-14s for years, which surprisingly enough, also have a centerline thrust restriction. I would never have guessed, considering how far apart the engines are mounted:


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Anyway, a few hours in a Dutchess got his centerline thrust restriction lifted, and he was able to go apply for airline jobs.


2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineOzLAME From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7499 times:

Cessna's original intent was that people could fly the 336/337 without a twin endorsement, but someone quickly put a stop to that; perhaps because there have been accidents caused by attempted take-offs with the rear engine not running.


Monty Python's Flying Circus has nothing to do with aviation, except perhaps for Management personnel.
User currently offlineTripleDelta From Croatia, joined Jul 2004, 1123 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7414 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Thanks for the replies, now it makes sense that it falls into it's own sub-category. Then, multi-centerline-engine endorsements can be got in regular multi-engine schools, provided they have the 337 for a type rating... Good to know, we're thinking of restoring the Skymaster mentioned before...  Smile

2H4: that's even more far-out then my original post  Smile. I would never have guessed it. So then, other jets with paired engines such as the F-15 and FA-18, are also categorized as centerline-thrust? What an irony it must be to have F-14/15/18 time and not be able to fly a Baron or Seneca...



No plane, no gain.
User currently offlineLeanOfPeak From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 509 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7377 times:

OzLAME, I think it's a little more insidious than that. It would be pretty silly for someone to attempt to take off in a twin on a single engine. What I would be more suspicious of is failure recognition. There have been 337 accidents caused by feathering of the wrong prop following an engine failure. While you don't have Vmc or critical engine to worry about, you do need to be drilled on learning how to tell which engine failed (Which is tougher when the airplane is not yawing as a result of the engine failure). Overall, not a situation you'd want to drop someone straight out of an Arrow into with just a checkride.

[Edited 2005-05-18 16:55:19]

User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1259 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7343 times:

Actually, there were several accidents due to simply forgetting to start the rear engine. I'm not sure of the details, but I've heard this from several reliable sources (both print and word of mouth). I'd guess that failure recognition would be a major issue nonetheless.


CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
User currently offlineLeanOfPeak From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 509 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7363 times:

I just looked up the NTSB reports on 337 accidents for the last decade.

I knew there'd be some cases of mistaken feathering and failure to feather. I did find some.

There is a surprising number of fuel exhaustion cases.

And I am appalled...You are right that there are cases of single-engine takeoffs, but not because the pilots forgot to start one engine; Because one engine would not start and the pilots DELIBERATELY taxied out and attempted to take off anyway.


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