There are nine LCD screens in this cockpit. The panels look kind of blocky though. Looking to the CDR's side, on the outboard panel, you can clearly see an HSI with what looks like a glide slope indicator to the right of it. I can't tell what the tapes to the left of it are showing though. I doubt airspeed given there isn't any. On the inboard panel, there is clearly an AI, probably an altimeter (radar no doubt) and perhaps a Concorde looking VSI. The same thing seems to be displayed on the PLT's side. The lower centre panel on the PLT's side seems to show main engine instruments.
Is this the first three holer with a glass cockpit?
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 17401 posts, RR: 59 Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5009 times:
Interesting that on the shuttle, the pilot and copilot sides show the information in the same order (i.e. the same information from right to left). Compare that to the photo below, where the PFD is always on the outside, and the ND is always on the inside:
Quoting Glom (Thread starter): I can't tell what the tapes to the left of it are showing though. I doubt airspeed given there isn't any. On the inboard panel, there is clearly an AI, probably an altimeter (radar no doubt) and perhaps a Concorde looking VSI.
Once they get into the atmosphere, there had better be an airspeed indicator, because there'll certainly be airspeed!
Looks like they have compasses (I'm not really sure what use they'd have for an HSI, it's not like they're doing VOR navigation back to the runway) and artificial horizons, and altitude and vertical speed tapes. Probably an airspeed tape too. I believe that the upper right screen in the center portion is showing the display used for keeping track of the re-entry.
EDIT: typo
-Mir
[Edited 2005-06-07 22:25:52]
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
EMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9137 posts, RR: 15 Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4843 times:
Why wouldn't you get an airspeed display?
It's there...it's part of the HSI.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
Woodreau From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 810 posts, RR: 8 Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4817 times:
I remember in some cockpit posters of the original shuttle panel that they could tune in TACANs (the shuttle being a non-civil registered spacecraft that it is...) KSC and Edwards both have TACANs on field.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from surviving bad judgement.
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 15323 posts, RR: 91 Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4695 times:
Quoting Glom (Thread starter): Is this the first three holer with a glass cockpit?
Hardly... I think the MD-10 conversion was available before Columbia received the upgrade.
Theiler From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 633 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4595 times:
Personally, I'm wondering where about the absence of a secured flight deck door. The TSA is bound to be fuming about this one.
Mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 5746 posts, RR: 70 Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4487 times:
The PFD and ND for both left seat and right seat showing the same info in the same order follows the military style instrumentation. If I remember correctly, this is the same as the B2... and that one U got the throttles on the left side of each seat.
Wouldn't all the info be put on the HUD anyways? why fuss about the PFD/ND arrangements?
Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
KBFIspotter From United States of America, joined May 2005, 729 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4357 times:
Quoting Gigneil (Reply 5): Hardly... I think the MD-10 conversion was available before Columbia received the upgrade.
Atlantis got them first...... For a detailed description of the system, I suggest reading Dennis R Jenkins book "Space Shuttle: A History of the National Space Transportation System."
KFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3224 posts, RR: 39 Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3941 times:
Quoting Woodreau (Reply 4): I remember in some cockpit posters of the original shuttle panel that they could tune in TACANs (the shuttle being a non-civil registered spacecraft that it is...) KSC and Edwards both have TACANs on field.
The shuttles now use MLS, or Microwave Landing System. It's essentially a long-range ILS that provides curved paths.
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
Glom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2773 posts, RR: 12 Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 1 hour ago) and read 3551 times:
Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 14): Probably because for most of the flight there would be no airspeed (no air!!).
I'm glad someone realises this. During launch, the spacecraft goes up and rapidly into the upper atmosphere where the drag is low before turning to attain orbital velocity. During orbit, the thing is in space. During reentry, the airspeed problem is more complicated when you're doing Mach 17.
Jetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2327 posts, RR: 15 Reply 17, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3283 times:
In space you could derive your speed from the inertial reference system. Orbital velocity determines the orbit altitude. However you wouldn't need speed as a reference, unlike in an aircraft, in which airspeed is the most important thing.
During re-entry trajectory and attitude are the most important factors. The shuttle is ballistic, so airspeed is incidental.
You would need an airspeed indication only for approach and landing.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
Monteycarlos From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2104 posts, RR: 38 Reply 19, posted (6 years 7 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3272 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16): How would Air speed be measured at the time of Re Entry & What Instrument in space.
At the time of re-entry I have no idea, I'm not sure the crew needs to know however - same as in space although you could measure it in orbits (i.e. Orbits per hour/day) which would perhaps be the easiest method.
Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 17): You would need an airspeed indication only for approach and landing.
Which begs the question how is this done? Is there a pitot static system and if so how does it work in the re-entry event?
TripleDelta From Croatia, joined Jul 2004, 968 posts, RR: 8 Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3070 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
The speed relative to the surface of the Earth (ground speed) in any phase of flight is measured with the INS - that is, an adapted version able to take the loads and accelerations that Shuttles experience, and with a software upgrade or two. There may be no air out there, but mass and inertia are still present. I guess that the shuttle also has three or more INS units like airliners do, but I'm not sure of how are they reset when their deviation becomes too great - most probably by comparing them to known satellite or station orbits (similar to the workings of the GPS system), but don't quote me on that.
About the TACAN, I also recall reading that earlier, and even some present Shuttles, have been equipped with TACAN receivers and that today they keep them as backups.
TripleDelta From Croatia, joined Jul 2004, 968 posts, RR: 8 Reply 22, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2990 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW PHOTO SCREENER
Quoting B744F (Reply 21): And by the way, just because there isn't any air doesn't mean you can't get airspeed. thats a simpleton way of looking at things
To nitpick a bit: airspeed (IAS, CAS, EAS and TAS) is, simplified, the speed of an aircraft in relation to the air around it (the speed of an aircraft in air). If there is no air, there is no airspeed since then there is no measuring medium. However, speed can be related to some other reference point, for example the surface of the Earth, where it becomes ground speed - but that may be of little use in orbit, so you could relate to the known speed of the station you are docking with, which will by far be the most accurate measurement - I think that one's called closing speed, but I'm not sure.
TedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2944 times:
FYI... IIRC The 'airspeed indicator' on the STS is MOSTLY INS driven. The REAL Pitot tube doesn't come out until they are down to around Mach 1@ 50,000 ft as prior to that, it would melt.
Jetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2327 posts, RR: 15 Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2912 times:
Quoting B744F (Reply 21): And by the way, just because there isn't any air doesn't mean you can't get airspeed. thats a simpleton way of looking at things
How exactly can you get airspeed without air to measure the speed relative to? Please explain for us simpletons.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
JBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4381 posts, RR: 23 Reply 25, posted (6 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2913 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16): How would Air speed be measured at the time of Re Entry & What Instrument in space.
Airspeed (well, in this case, groundspeed) is measured primarily by inertial measurement units (IMUs) on the Orbiter, as well as accelerometers. There are three of them, as the other poster assumed. During the early phases of re-entry, actual airspeed is not considered as important as dynamic pressure on the vehicle. There are various ways of measuring this without a true pitot-static system; the easiest I can think of would be judging the amount of force exerted on the elevons during deflection.
The "Air Data Probes" are actually deployed when the vehicle reaches around Mach 3, and operate similarly to a conventional pitot-static system. An AoA sensor is also deployed.
Sponsor Message: 
From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2773 posts, 
From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 17401 posts, 
From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 5746 posts, 
From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1230 posts, 
From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2104 posts, 
From India, joined Jan 2001, 29818 posts, 
From Croatia, joined Jul 2004, 968 posts, 
Sponsor Message: 
Printer friendly format
){kind=link}