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ANy Last Minute Pointers Before I Take My Oral?  
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2105 times:

Hey guys, finally got around to schedualling my Dispatch practical for tuesday night. Since I finished school in April, this means I am finally getting done just before the wire on the 90 day validity of the certificate.

Anyway I am here sunday, eating some microwave egg-rolls looking at the study guides and wondering if there is anything I missed...

Anybody got any pointers before I go before the examiner?


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSaintsman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2092 times:

Don't bullshit. If you don't know an answer say so but try to have a go and say why you've come up with your reasons. There is nothing worse than not knowing and digging a big hole for yourself. It makes every other question harder and if I was the examiner I would be looking to catch you out.

Look upon it as a learning experience too and you will probably have a successful day.


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2042 times:

Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
Anybody got any pointers before I go before the examiner?

I heartily agree with him; don't BS the examiner. As a former one, it was easy to tell, and it's better to be honest. If an answer doesn't immediately come to mind, know where to go to look it up.

One of the best things you can do is to acknowledge right now, before the test, that you will make mistakes on the oral/practical. Over the years, I had alot of people so tense that they looked like they'd snap pencils in half trying to get every answer correct, and the first time they answered incorrectly they thought all was lost. The exam isn't like being on your way to throwing a perfect all-strike game of baseball, and then you throw a ball and lose the game. Keep that kind of needless pressure off yourself.

A few things that are a must to know and understand....

-The FAR 1.1 definition of "operational control" and what it means...

-FARs 121.557 and 121.627(a); know them and understand their interrelationship...

-The MEL...

-The differences between VFR, VMC, IFR, and IMC...

-How to read approach charts and calculate landing/alternate minimums...
(If you use NOS/NACO and not Jepps, learn Jepps before you interview someplace--many firms ask you to read a Jepp as part of the interview process. Telling them that all you studied in class was NOS/NACO might well be true, but in their eyes could also be an excuse that gets you bounced from consideration.)

-How to calculate the effect of inop navids on minimums...

There is also a tendency for some to be way overly conservative in trying to impress the examiner. For instance, the flight you have to plan has an MEL item on it, and you automatically take the time to fix it. If the item can be deferred while complying with restrictions (if any) as per the MEL, consider doing so. Obviously, if it's a no-go item, or one that can't comply with the weather, etc., then fix it.

Good luck, and let everyone know how you did.

P.S. One last thing. Once you get your ticket, "all" it means is that you met the standards for the certificate, and it, of course, does not mean you're finished with the learning processes. That'll be ongoing, or at least it should be.

It was once said that "those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" and for that reason, I'd also suggest a detailed reading of some operational control-related NTSB accident reports, like Avianca 52 (1990), Air Illinois 710 (1983), and United 178 (1978).





[Edited 2005-07-18 16:46:29]

User currently offlineSean1234 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 411 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1998 times:

Hi,

When I did my PPL oral my instructor told me that I should provide the answer to the question and only that. In other words give the minimum amount of information, so as you are less likely to make a mistake.

If you truly don't know an answer offer to look it up; this will maybe only be permissible to get you out of trouble once. Don't be dependent on outside sources.

Sean


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2001 times:

Hey, good luck partner!

As the guys said above: Trying to bluff is the number one bad idea for an applicant. Of course the examiner knows the correct answer.

I only had two students not pass the practical on the first go. One of them was one of the worst students I ever had, but he turned into a pretty good dispatcher, the other was the best student I ever had and he went back to his own profession after getting the license. Both blew it on the same item with two different examiners.

They missed an MEA on a Jet Route in the western US. (They are all FL180 right? WRONG!) They were given the route with one pack inop, which restricted them to FL240. One airway segment had an MEA of 29000' for VOR reception. It should have just been a debriefing item instead of a bust, but one guy tried to BS his way past it and the other, I don't know, I guess the DE just thought he needed humbling.

The written tests, as you know, have a minimum of 70%.
Checkrides have performance standards which are published and do allow for some slop.
The AD practical also has an unspecified amount of slack at any given point for temporary cerebral vacuums. I always told my students that "I don't know. might just be a fair answer to some questions. It shouldn't be used very often. It should not be the first trick out of your bag, but it just might be that you don't know. I've watched my students get past this successfully by suggesting that the answer would probably be in 121, Subpart U, for example and "may they look it up?" If they were then able to confirm their guess and not leaf through 121 page by page for half an hour it was usually, at worst, a debriefing item.

As they alluded to above, don't fret if you think you blew it at some point. If the exam is over, the examiner will not be bashful about telling you so. If he continues asking you questions, you are still afloat so press on!

I've had my guys examined by a number of FAA folks and different DEs. It seems to be fairly common to "test you to destruction" on any given topic. In other words, ask you meteorology questions until you have demonstrated a good working knowledge, then pressing on until they could stump you. One particular DE would ask "What is an isopleth" (it is a line connecting points of equal dewpoint, analgous to an isotherm for equal temps.) When they got that question I'd smile because I knew he was about to type up a Temporary Airman Certificate.

Relax. Have fun. Think out in every direction from the center of the question (weather at destination, MEL, low-time captain, etc.) but don't think it to death.

Come back and tell us all about it when you've got the ticket.
We'll be right here.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1933 times:

Thanks guys, right now trying to put together all of the documentation that I need for tommorrow....where the hell did my AK Hi/Lo charts go.

It is going to be interesting, I haven't been able to do that much studying and it has been two months and change since I got out of school, so the certificate is about to expire.

That and I picked the guy that was described as the "Hard" examiner in this state.....there are only two.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1930 times:

Is he an FAA guy or a designee?

User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1911 times:

I would second, third, and fourth the no BS thing. If you don't know, say so. Don't make a habit of this and know the general area of study where you can find the answer. Ask the examiner what he'll accept as reference material for the exam and have as much as allowed for reference.

This always works for me on the night before. Organize everything, set it by your door so it's ready to go and you don't forget any important material. Then, enjoy a frosty adult beverege before turning in for the night. DO NOT study the night before. If you don't know it by then, you won't learn it.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes.



DMI
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4211 posts, RR: 37
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days ago) and read 1897 times:

Just don't mess up.


And just so you know, we're all counting on you.  Smile




Good luck!!...relax and think out each answer. Best option is to take a breath after each question. If that doesnt work, carry a roll of 20 dollar bills.  Smile "I missed that one??? Well, how about a free steak dinner?"



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1832 times:

Moving it up...

Waiting to hear how you did....  Wink


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1805 times:

I'll tell you Thursday.

! was getting about two hours into my flight plan, and time for the day ran out. So I get to finish that and then justify it.

So...the beer is going to have to wait.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1770 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 10):
! was getting about two hours into my flight plan, and time for the day ran out.

Because I drilled the basics of flight planning there was always a tendency for my full-course students to try to put too fine a point on this task. A student could blow the better part of a day working out the details when doing manual flight planning.

To counter this, later on in the course I'd do two things: One; I would do a "speed drill" demonstration. I'd have one guy open on volume of the Jepp set at random and that would be the origin. Another student would open another volume at random and that would be the destination. Then they'd look at a National Geographic map of the States and pick an alternate. I'd give them the weather package and they were off.

Usually they could work up the whole thing in about fifteen minutes with me prompting and goading them. It was an eye opener for them, and really fun.

The other thing I'd do is give them a flight MSY-FLL and have them work it up together. When the flight plan was ready I'd write down imaginary OUT and OFF times on the board. I'd have them tell me where the plane was right now. (It was usually near TLH.) Then I'd role-play and give them an ACARS message that it had been hijacked to Cuba. (I'm dating myself there!) Then playing various roles I'd have them work up the revised flight plan to MUHA, pressure them for an estimate to TADPO where they will enter Cuban airspace and so on. Key was how much fuel remaining at MUHA. It was a fun drill.

The point of these two exercises was to show them how quickly it actually could be done. For a full-course student my target was about 1:15 for a full hand-jammed flight plan, weight & balance and performance data for the flight by the last week of the course. The last week was lots of oral review in preparation for the practical.

The manual flight planning is a relic in these days of computer generated ones, but they are a great way to teach the basics.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1713 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 10):
I'll tell you Thursday.

...and?


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1658 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 12):
Quoting L-188 (Reply 10):
I'll tell you Thursday.

...and?

Well I just got home and........


Well I can't tell you that I have been a nervous wreck since Tuesday morning. I had the trots on Wednsday and can't discount that my frequent trips to the lav where caused by the stress I was causing myself.....and the examiner did comment on this because of my constant appologizing for looking up details in the manuals and disarray. Frankly for most of the test I thought he could have busted me about 4 different times. And this from a guy that did this job 135 for almost half a decade prior.

I do regret the fact that I waited almost the full 90 days my school certificate was vaild before taking the practical. I couldn't shake the fact that I felt like I was blanking on answers that I should have known, and looking them up. And I felt like I had to look up the right answer before I answered the questions. Worst bo-bo I think I did was space where to find the Catagory of aircraft for the approach plates (Vref-1.3*Vso) Stared at that thing for about 15 minutes before I had to say duhhh, there it was right about the catagory speed chart in the plate book.

What he did on Tuesday was look at my old practice flight plans from school and picked out one that was from Nome to Anchorage and then applied a MEL to it, and then to adapt it to the new conditions. In this case the aircraft was MEL'd for pressuization. So I dropped it down to a Victor route and went low, my arguement for him was that we had not specified if the cargo was pressure sensitive (passengers, argon windows, medivac pt with an air embolizim). He was critical of the fact that I kept him at 11000 the whole flight instead of stayin at 9 until he got past McGrath on on the airway and into the Alaska Range, which is why there is 10,000 foot MEA.

Oh question from the test that I will not forget, "Why is a 1900 only certificated to 25,000 feet" Which is the question he asked after he had me look up the Max alt. I spaced out some answer about it was only demonstrated to that altitude during the certification process....actual answer is that it only has one pack on it.

But he admitted that was a dirty question and beyond the scope of the dispatcher test, so I don't feel that bad. I didn't get that far in my A&P classwork 5 years ago to deal with that.

At least now I have a three day weekend to calm down and retagain proper bowl function.........

At least that Guiness I have in my fridge is not going to be a pitty beer....er stout. Big grin



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1659 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
is not going to be a pitty beer

And so I take it from this that you are a certificated temporary airman?



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1652 times:

Yup...I passed

Thanks for the advice and encouragement guys



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1650 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 15):
Yup...I passed

Congrats!


User currently offlineSCCutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5555 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1653 times:

Nothing like reading successful checkride (so to speak) stories.

Great stuff!

Congratulations. Wish you could be dispatching Reeve L188s.

/s/



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
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