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How Do You Start An Airliner?  
User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3958 posts, RR: 18
Posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6280 times:

Hi all,

Someone asked me the same question a few days ago and I couldn't answer it so I'm hoping to find out the answer by asking on here  Smile.

So, how's it done? Do you have a key and an ignition which you crank up like in a car or what ?

What about the external doors? Do these have a lock and key for them too?

 bigthumbsup 

Methods from everything from a Ce152 to a 747 would be interesting reading.

Cheers,

Rob K  Wink

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6262 times:

If you have to ask advise on a.net you have probabely the wrong background all together....
Lost of posts about this issue have been issued in various aviation-forums but it all boils down to access of substantial amount of money....
One wise man said -when asked how to become rich - "well if you start as very ,very rich rich and open an airline you might end up just rich...."



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineTrappedInMKG From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6253 times:

He said start an AIRLINER, not an AIRLINE.

User currently offlinePMN From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 563 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6242 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):

Either you're being sarcastic or you have totally missed the point of the question...

Paul



Edith in his bed, a plane in the rain is humming, the wires in the walls are humming some song - some mysterious song
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12181 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6236 times:

A C-152 start is similar to a car, turn the key and the starter turns the engine.

Jet engines are started with compressed air from a GPU or APU, turns the starter motor, which turns the turbine. Somewhere around 12%-15%, the throttle is moved to the start position and begins metering fuel into the engine. An igniter (kind of a really big spark plug) ingnites the fuel as it enters the burner section or burner cans. The engine gradually spools up to idle, at which time, in some aircraft, the throttle is placed over a detent or stop, to the throttle idle position. Other aircraft the throttle is already in this position, after moving through the start positions.

This is repeated to start the remaining engines.

That is very basic, but I hope it helps.


User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3958 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6220 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
A C-152 start is similar to a car, turn the key and the starter turns the engine.

Jet engines are started with compressed air from a GPU or APU, turns the starter motor, which turns the turbine. Somewhere around 12%-15%, the throttle is moved to the start position and begins metering fuel into the engine. An igniter (kind of a really big spark plug) ingnites the fuel as it enters the burner section or burner cans. The engine gradually spools up to idle, at which time, in some aircraft, the throttle is placed over a detent or stop, to the throttle idle position. Other aircraft the throttle is already in this position, after moving through the start positions.

This is repeated to start the remaining engines.

That is very basic, but I hope it helps.

Very interesting! Thanks!

Cheers,

Rob K  Wink


User currently offlinePsa53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3095 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6202 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
One wise man said -when asked how to become rich - "well if you start as very ,very rich rich and open an airline you might end up just rich...."

Good way to put it.And the oil prices are soaring.Some airlines already
positioning themselves as mega,mega carriers.And guess what?When
that happens,it could open more opportunity for more start-up
regional carriers.

We had the subject,"Short Lived Airline Companies,"on A.net, that started up
and then folded within a 5 years,even I was amazed of how many carriers
folded in that time frame.



Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
User currently offlineJfkaua From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1000 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6195 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
If you have to ask advise on a.net you have probabely the wrong background all together....
Lost of posts about this issue have been issued in various aviation-forums but it all boils down to access of substantial amount of money....
One wise man said -when asked how to become rich - "well if you start as very ,very rich rich and open an airline you might end up just rich...."



Quoting Psa53 (Reply 6):
Good way to put it.And the oil prices are soaring.Some airlines already
positioning themselves as mega,mega carriers.And guess what?When
that happens,it could open more opportunity for more start-up
regional carriers.

We had the subject,"Short Lived Airline Companies,"on A.net, that started up
and then folded within a 5 years,even I was amazed of how many carriers
folded in that time frame.

do you guys read the topic or the question at all?!?!


User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6173 times:

Well, in order to be able to start an airliner, and airline probably has to be started at some point?

User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3958 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6161 times:

I'm asking how you start an AIRLINER, ie. how do you start the engines. NOT how do you start an airline.

User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6140 times:

got the message - sorry for the confusion- it's very hot here in the south of France....heat must have spoilt my view...  melting 


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlinePsa53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3095 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6139 times:

Quoting Jfkaua (Reply 7):
do you guys read the topic or the question at all?!?!

Your right.Just got up.Eyes not focus yet.
What a night.

[Edited 2005-07-24 20:45:11]


Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2821 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6132 times:

Startup procedures on all the aircraft are more involved than just getting strapped it, shutting the door and turning the key. On modern single engine piston aircraft, various switches must be set for electrics and the fuel system must be setup before engine start and in more powerful engines, the startup is a little more complicated than just turning the key.

User currently offlineSimProgrammer From France, joined Aug 2004, 193 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6065 times:

Yep, you just crank it and away she goes...

no.no seriously.. theres no keys or door locks. This is a day fine weather check for an A319. I have ignored cabin and outside checks.

At the gate:

0=Landing Gear Lever - DOWN
1=Engine Master Switches -OFF
2=Logbook - CHECKED
3=Circuit Breakers - NORMAL
4=ADIRS - NAV
5=Oxygen - ON
6=Emergency Lights - ARMED
7=Pressurization - AUTO
8=Engine/Wing Anti-Ice - OFF
9=Air Conditioning - SET
10=Electrical - SET
11=Hydraulics - SET
12=Fire Pushbuttons - PUSH IN
13=Instruments - FLAGS NORMAL
14=Altimeters - SET
15=ECAM - DOORS, STATUS CHECKED
16=Fuel - CHECK RELEASE MINIMUM
17=Anti-Skid - ON
18=Nose Wheel Steering - ON
19=Gear - DOWN + GREEN
20=Switching - NORMAL
21=Takeoff Warning - CHECKED
22=Engine Master Switches - OFF
23=MCDU - SET

With Pushback hitched:

0=ADIRS - ALIGN LIGHTS ON
1=Beacon - ON
2=Fuel Pumps - AUTO + ON
3=Sliding Windows - BOTH LOCKED
4=Doors - ALL GREEN, SLIDES ARMED

Pushback:

0=Engine/Wing Anti-Ice again - OFF
1=ECAM Status - CHECKED
2=Wave Off - RECEIVED

Before takeoff:

0=Allowable Takeoff Weight - CHECKED
1=Flaps - SET
2=Trim - SET
3=APU - OFF
4=Controls - FREE + NORMAL
5=Thrust Mode - TAKEOFF
6=V Bug + whatever-kts - CHECKED + SET



Drive a bus, an Airbus, easier than a London bus!
User currently offlineOzLAME From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5855 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
A C-152 start is similar to a car, turn the key and the starter turns the engine.

Well, there is a bit more to it than that; in piston-engined a/c you have to prime the engine/s with fuel and set throttle and mixture. If you get it wrong you can crank the engine until the cows come home but it won't start.
The simplest a/c to start I have seen so far in my career are the Swearingen/Fairchild Metro series. It's not the correct way to start them but it is possible to jump in, turn on the batteries and hit the start button. The engine will usually spool up nicely, especially on the IIIs and 23s.



Monty Python's Flying Circus has nothing to do with aviation, except perhaps for Management personnel.
User currently offlineJumppilot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5630 times:

Find the "do not push" button and Push it!


pull back to go up, pull way back to go down!
User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5553 times:

Quoting Jfkaua (Reply 7):

You've been a a.net member for almost a year and you still have to ask that question?  Wink


User currently offlineC172 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5528 times:

Quoting OzLAME (Reply 14):
Well, there is a bit more to it than that; in piston-engined a/c you have to prime the engine/s with fuel and set throttle and mixture.

Not always. Primer is listed "as necessary" but not a requisite item on the checklist. For instance, an engine that shut down just a few minutes before your flight requires no primer to start.


User currently offlineNZ1 From Australia, joined May 2004, 2277 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5513 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

RobK

Here is a basic rundown for a 744.

If you are netering a deadship, first turn on the battery switch. Then turn the APU start switch on the overhead panel to start, and let it go. It will flip back to the run position. APU will go through its own sequence and start up. When it is at normal operating speed the 2 generators will automatiocally come online.

Now you have power.

Next, select the APU bleed air switch on, and also the left and right wing isolation valves on.

Now you have air to both wings and all 4 engines.

Next, turn on all 4 forward and aft fuel boost pumps. Now we are ready to start an engine.

On the overhead panel, pull out the start button for number 4 engine. The engine will start to spool up to a max N2 speed of around 28% (for a CF6). Howver when it is over 15% and the EGT indication is below 180 degrees C, you may put the run lever underneath the throttle quadrant to the run position. The engine will light off and spool up to the idle operating speed.

Congrats you have started an engine. 3 more to go. You can start 2 at a time on the 744 or use autostart to do it for you. This is a basic rundown as you had asked for in post number 1.

Cheers
NZ1


User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3958 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5355 times:

Excellent. Thanks NZ1. Interesting.  bigthumbsup 

Cheers,

Rob K  Wink


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21879 posts, RR: 55
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5300 times:

In most big jet planes, the start sequence is fully automated, and requires only a button to push or a knob to turn, but there's generally a whole song and dance that has to be done before you can get to that point.

IIRC, in the Airbus, once you have done that whole song and dance (most importantly turning on the APU, APU bleed, and fuel pumps), you then flip the engine master switch for the appropriate engine to on. The computer takes it from there.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAir2gxs From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5128 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 20):
In most big jet planes, the start sequence is fully automated, and requires only a button to push or a knob to turn, but there's generally a whole song and dance that has to be done before you can get to that point.

Define most. All the aircraft at my operator (over 200 aircraft) requires more than a button push and the sequence is not automated. Well, I guess you would have to define automated. An MD11 is more automated than a B747-classic, but is still not a 1 button start.


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5093 times:

We don't.
FADEC does.

Love that automation!



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineAbbs380 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4952 times:

Airsgxs, AFAIK all internal combustion engines whether they are mounted on a car or boat or airliner require three things to run. Air, fuel and ignition. On jet airliners the air is provided by rotating the engine with a starter. When the engine is rotating fast enough you introduce fuel into the airstream by moving a fuel lever in the cockpit, this does two things (in basic terms) it opens a valve which supplies fuel to the injector nozzles which in turn discharge a fine fuel mixture into the burner cans, and it energizes the ignition system. The ignition system is sort of like a car spark plug only about 1000 times more powerfull. This system ignites the fuel and the engine accelerates to idle speed. As far as one button start goes I dont know. The A300 is the latest thing I have worked on. On the A300 you can just push one button, after everything else is set up, and the engine will spool up to speed on the starter. You still have to move the fuel lever to on at the appropriate time and then monitor engine acceleration utill the engine gets up to idle speed to make sure it does not get too hot. The starter is supposed to automatically cut out at 45% but You have to be sure that happens so it doesn't blow up. I think newer a/c may have a better system, but that's what many people deal with.

User currently offlineJeffry747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 963 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4947 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 18):
basic rundown for a 744.

I learned something new about my favorite plane today. Thanks!



C'mon Big B, FLY!
25 FutureUApilot : The Cessnas, Piper's, Mooneys, and such do have keys to lock their doors. Not sure about the Cessna Citation, I'll have to check today at work. Most
26 Post contains images TheGreatChecko : The Cessnas I have flown had external door keys. The real question is, do they work. Most GA aircraft, except the really basic types like the Piper C
27 Glom : Of course, when it comes to Concorde, the answer would be "with great difficulty".
28 Post contains images David L : You think RobK is planning to steal one from a museum? Very responsible answer.
29 Air2gxs : Abbs380, I am well aware of the process to start an aircraft engine and what happens inside the engine. My point was that the process on most engines
30 MD11Engineer : This is definitely wrong. The Align lights on mean that the respective ADIRUs are in the process of aligning themselves with axis of earth rotation t
31 Troubleshooter : On the ERJ (after switching some more systems, of course...) you set the start switch momentarily to start and that´s it. The FADECs control the eng
32 Air2gxs : Fuel and ignition introduced by FADEC? Cool. Does the FADEC system initiate an aborted start if it detects a problem, either with the start or itself
33 Troubleshooter : Fuel is introduced by the FCU. FADEC controls the FCU and schedules the fuel flow to the engine fuel nozzles. Ignition is controlled by a FADEC signa
34 Air2gxs : I realize that. I am quite familiar with FADEC (CF6, PW2000, PW4000) engines. I just have never heard of auto-start. Doesn't answer the question. If
35 Abbs380 : Air2gxs, now that I think about it, what you are describing sounds like an apu start on lots of airliners, but not the REAL engines on any a/c I am aw
36 Air2gxs : Yes, the APU on modern airliners is fully automatic and it appears that the ERJ may come real close.
37 SlamClick : Those which I have operated would abort the start, motor the starter with the fuel off to clear unburnt fuel etc. all without pilot intervention. The
38 Post contains images Wing : Ecellent summary of the start sequence of A 320 family.Exactly what I learned in the ground school.
39 A/c train : heres a 752 start, from entering a dead airplane, Select the Battery switch on, do the fire/ovht test for the APU, select APU switch to start hold for
40 Kc7mmi : A/c train, On the 752, what engines are you using? Or does it matter?
41 Troubleshooter : On the ERJ there is no feature like hung/hot start protection. If you have no light up 5 secs. after fuel introduction (ITT rise) the start must be m
42 AvionicMech : Seen as A/c Train refers to watching the N3 rotation they will definitely be RB211's on his 752's, but the start up procedure will be basically the s
43 Kc7mmi : Yeah, I didn't know the RB211's had N3...thanks for the info tho. As for Airbus's, I recall the captain only flipping the master switch to start the
44 Post contains images Derik737 : Ah, FADEC is for wussies. J/K The most favorite engine I started in my career was the Rolls Royce Dart on our Fokker F-27's when I worked for Mesaba i
45 TinPusher007 : Minor correction here..GPU's (Ground Power Units) do not supply compressed air to the starter, they only supply electrical power to the aircraft whil
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