Palladium From Indonesia, joined Apr 2005, 270 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 19877 times:
I have been very curious about this question.
How many times can a pilot fly a plane in 1 day? Is there kind of a certain limit rule?
Say, for example if a pilot fly on a short routes Singapore - Jakarta ( 1 hour ), will they use the same pilot to fly back the plane to Singapore? or do they have to change the pilot?
I know for sure that for long haul routes, they definetely have to change the pilot and the crew as well.
Bels13 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 18 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 19870 times:
Yes, pilots can fly the same airplane for more than 1 leg. There have been numerous times where I would fly 5 legs in one day and it all be on the same aircraft.
Monteycarlos From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 31 Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 19856 times:
I think duty time is the only consideration (i.e. pilots may only be allowed to fly for a certain 10 hour period) including planning etc.
I don't specifically know what the duty time limits are but I am sure its available on the internet. This is suffice to say that some companies will pressure their pilots to fly beyond duty time which is not a good thing!
SLCPilot From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 529 posts, RR: 3 Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 19856 times:
I've done 8 legs. More are possible within 121 regs but you'd really have to have short legs and quick turns.
SLCPilot
I don't like to be fueled by anger, I don't like to be fooled by lust...
SonOfACaptain From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 5 Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 19853 times:
There is no limit on how many legs pilots are allowed to fly, as long as it is under there requiered work hours. I know there have been 1900 pilots who have flown 16 (or 12, can't remember) legs in one day.
The rules get fairly in-depth, however what I guess could be described as the basic rule is found in CAO 48.1 Paragraph 1.4: "An operater shall not roster a pilot to fly in excess of 8 hours flight time in any 1 tour of duty". BUT, this then gets expanded on, and there are a bunch of exceptions (basically along the lines that the more flight or duty time, the more rest time required in between). To my knowledge, there is no limit on the number of actual flights that can be conducted. To answer the SIN-JKT and return question, under Australia rules, it could be done.
As well as daily limits, there are also limits on the ammount of flying which can be done in a period of time (30 hours in a 7 day period, 100 hours in a 30 day period, 900 hours in a 365 day period).
How this compares with regulations in other countries, I don't know, but I suspect there would be a lot of similarities.
I hope this is useful,
V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 19821 times:
Out here FDTL [Flight Duty time limitation] is the factor.Its 8hrs/day + 4 hrs extension twice a month.
Day is taken from Sunrise to Sunset.
The Flight duty should not exceed enroute.
Even SNY Travel in Cockpit is catered for FDTL in Cargo Airlines out here.
regds
MEL
Ha763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3492 posts, RR: 6 Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 19818 times:
Rule as in government regulation? Not that I can recall, just as long as you do not exceed the maximum flight duty time. However, airlines tend to have duty rules as spelled out in their pilot contracts. For example, I have seen an old copy of the AQ pilot contract and in the 'Hours of Service' section, it says that pilots will not be scheduled for more than 11 landings plus 1 deadhead per duty day.
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71 Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 19746 times:
Like SLCPilot I can recall doing eight segments in a day. The company used to schedule one particular type for seven or eight, and a block time of 7:58 or so. Just under the legal limit for flight hours. No segment limit but rather, practical limitations on how many you could squeeze in over a legal duty day.
I've done twelve or more under Part 135 charter. In the military I made 28 full-stop, taxi back takeoffs and landings in one day. I was a pooped pilot.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71 Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 19701 times:
DeHavilland of Canada DHC-2 Beaver. (US Army U-6A)
I'd recently scared myself by almost running out of runway on a landing on a high altitude dirt strip. So I went out and practiced until I felt proficient again.
I made a short field landing on a sod strip, then got out and paced off the landing distance. I came up with 333 feet. (102 meters) I kicked a line out of the grass, across the field at the beginning and end of that run and used that as my "runway" for the rest of the day. I never again used the full 333 feet. This was at about five thousand feet or so, density altitude with just me in the plane and starting out with 95 gallons of gas.
HaveBlue From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2069 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 19673 times:
Nice story Slam, I had the same question as to which type so I'm glad HAWK21M asked it.
MrChips From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 911 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 19541 times:
Quoting SlamClick (Reply 10): The Beaver . . .was a very good airplane
Damn straight.
So now I am going to pose the question eating at pilot unions and regulatory agencies all over the world...
Since we all know that takeoff and landing are the most stressful segments of a given flight, should there not be consideration as to how many cycles a crew has flown on a given day?
Obviously, a transoceanic pilot who makes one takeoff and landing per duty day is exposing themselves to less stress than a regional pilot, who could be making upwards of eight per day.
Woodreau From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 890 posts, RR: 7 Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 19521 times:
Quoting VirginFlyer (Reply 5): The rules get fairly in-depth, however what I guess could be described as the basic rule is found in CAO 48.1 Paragraph 1.4: "An operater shall not roster a pilot to fly in excess of 8 hours flight time in any 1 tour of duty". BUT, this then gets expanded on, and there are a bunch of exceptions (basically along the lines that the more flight or duty time, the more rest time required in between). To my knowledge, there is no limit on the number of actual flights that can be conducted. To answer the SIN-JKT and return question, under Australia rules, it could be done.
As well as daily limits, there are also limits on the ammount of flying which can be done in a period of time (30 hours in a 7 day period, 100 hours in a 30 day period, 900 hours in a 365 day period).
US rules are pretty similar - but it depends on what rules the air carrier is operating under: 121 domestic, 121 flag or 135 on demand.
Under 121 rules with two pilots the limitations are: 1000 hours in a calendar year, 100 hours in a calendar month, 30 (domestic) or 32 (flag) hours in a 7 day period, then it gets messy with the flight time allowed for a 24 hour period. When you add additional crew members, and additional pilots, the time limitations change.
Under 135 rules the limitations are: 1200 hours in a calendar year, 120 hours in a calendar month, 34 hours in a 7 day period. For 2 pilot crews: no more than 8 hours without a required rest period (which means you can be on duty for 16 hours within a 24 hour period); for a single pilot crew: no more than 8 hours of flying in a 24 hour period.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from surviving bad judgement.
IL76TD From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 289 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19293 times:
Most russian crews aren't happy unless they do minimum 200 hours per month. And i've seen russian freighter crews do 36 duty hours in a 48 hour period.
Caboclo From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 203 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 19222 times:
Then there's skydiving. Since that operation does not have duty time regulations, there is no limit. I expect a normal day at a busy dropzone could include a couple dozen landings; then there are the people who try to do as many jumps in a day as possible, might be the same pilot for all 50+.
L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29350 posts, RR: 62 Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 19219 times:
Quoting Woodreau (Reply 14): For 2 pilot crews: no more than 8 hours without a required rest period (which means you can be on duty for 16 hours within a 24 hour period); for a single pilot crew: no more than 8 hours of flying in a 24 hour period.
Our rules when I was dispatching 135 was 10 hours flight, 14 hour duty day for a two man crew. Boiy do I have those limits drilled into my head.
I do know of one time where in order to complete a medivac flight, without requiring an RON in a Citation a 3rd pilot was assigned to the flgiht. If memory serves the flight was completed in 10.5 or 11.5 hours.
Frankly I think that was playing a bit loose with the rules, myself but it wasn't my flight.
Also the other thing we where allowed to do was to part 91 the airplane and crew back, which meant that a crew could fly in excess of 10 hours since the 91 hours didn't count toward the 135 time.
But as mentioned earlier, there is no limit to the number of legs that can be flown, only duty and flight hours. And the actually number of hours flown will depend on the type of operation and the number of flight crewmembers.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8950 posts, RR: 62 Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 19086 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD DATABASE EDITOR
SlamClick,
How would you compare the flight characteristics and STOL behavior of the Beaver to a Helio Courier?
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71 Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19049 times:
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 19): How would you compare the flight characteristics and STOL behavior of the Beaver to a Helio Courier?
Operating costs aside as that is a whole different discussion...
I think if I had small cargo to move around over distances of a couple hundred miles the Beaver would be my choice. If I had to sneak a deep-cover agent into a hostile nation in the middle of the night and land him in someone's back yard I'd want the Helio.
The Beaver was SOLID. It was strong, and the design was straightforward. Just really long, high-aspect ratio, with Fowler flaps and flaperons. Nothing else. The Helio was hand-built (in Pittsburg Kansas, the ones I flew) and I found it a little delicate. The slat "tomahawks" were one potential source of trouble, the brakes were adequate for stopping it but if you had to taxi very far they'd get pretty hot. Lots of little things went wrong on me.
What the Helio really did well was the "Watch This!" kind of flying. I landed it in a skydiving target one day, a sand pit maybe fifty feet across. As soon as you lifted off there was full roll control. You could pull it back to really low speed and roll into a steep turn, add some power and you'd spiral up over a spot on the ground. Want to spiral down? Just pull back farther and it would start mushing down with full pitch and roll control.
On the ground, give me the Beaver. Helio felt all underslung! Of course on the ground was not its element at all. I liked instrument approaches in the Beaver. With a little bit of flaps and some power you would chug along like a tugboat. It was really fun. It also seemed that you could put it "on the step" in cruise. Level off maybe 200 feet higher than cruise level, then use that to get you speed all the way up before reducing to cruise power. Some guys might just crack the flaps for heavy cruise.
I would enjoy the opportunity to fly either one of them again.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8950 posts, RR: 62 Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19035 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD DATABASE EDITOR
Thanks for the insight, SlamClick...always a pleasure to read your posts.
IL76TD From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 289 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 18972 times:
Hawk21M,
Pilots carry 2 logbooks, one for the russian licensing authority, and one for themselves. The one for the agency will be perfect, the one for themselves will be twice as thick.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 18970 times:
Quoting IL76TD (Reply 22): The one for the agency will be perfect, the one for themselves will be twice as thick.
Are you saying the exceeding FDTL flying is carried out in Russia & noted within FDTL limits.
Is this for Civilian Airlines too or only Military/Cargo.
regds
MEL
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