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Gust Locks...what Do They Do?  
User currently offlineD5DBY From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15849 times:

hi

i was wondering about gust locks..what is the gust locks function? i heard its to lock flaps, rudder and these thing when the AC is parked? to prevent them from moving around?

do modern AC have gust locks, like B737 NG? and how do u remove them when u should take off? u go outside the AC and remove them manually? or with a switch in the cockpit?

what happens if u perform a take-off without removing the gust lock?

many questions..lol

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGmidy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 15834 times:

Most props have gust locks on the throttles to prevent fluctuations in thrust, also its impossible to takeoff with the gust lock in place, it physically prevents the throttles moving past a certain point. As far as the NG's or any other similar type are concerned i've never heard of gust locks being manually or physically put in place its usually all done electronically.


Lawrence
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 15833 times:

Gust Locks lock the flight controls when the aircraft is parked to prevent them from moving around and causing damage to the flight controls and related system. Most modern large jet aircraft do not need them as the flight controls are hydraulically controlled and when the hydraulic system is 'at rest,' a dampening device in the actuator automatically locks the flight contol in a neutral position.

Every system I've ever seen will prevent the aircraft from taking off with the system engauged two ways. When setting the gust lock, a handle is pulled up blocking out the power/thrust levers....and with the engines running if you release the parking brake and/or move the power levers and alarm willl go off.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 15824 times:

Gust locks are not needed on aircraft with hydraulically powered control surfaces, since the actuators work as natural dampers if the hydraulic systems are depressurised.

Gust locks are needed on aircraft using purely mechanical links from the control column and pedals, or using servo tabs.

If you don't remove the gust lock, the result will be like the Interflug Il-62 back in 1989 in SXF, which overshot the runway, because they couldn't rotate because the elevator was locked.

Jan

[Edited 2005-08-28 16:23:53]

User currently offlineFokker Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 15806 times:

Fokker uses gust locks. The ailerons are friction and pin locks. While the throttle, elevators, and rudder use pins/ receptacles. The F28 locks the throttle, elevator, ailerons and rudder. The F100 locks everything but the rudder. It is hydraulicly locked. The locking system is a lever on the rear of the pedastal connected to each component through a cable system. The pins are spring loaded to the off (normal flight) position. That way, if the cable fails in flight, the controls stay unlocked. Rigging the system is fairly simple except for accessing all of the rig pin locations. After installing the pins, you would set the cable tensions in the fwd bagbin area and check the system operation one time. This is unlike a normal rigging situation where you would exercise the system several times, recheck your tensions, and then recheck your rig pins for alignment. For some reason the Fokker gustlock system has so much monkey motion that you can never get all of the holes to realign after moving the system. It's been about 3 years since I last worked on a Fokker. This was from memory and slight errors are possible, but not really important.

User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1647 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 15800 times:
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Quoting Gmidy (Reply 1):
Most props have gust locks on the throttles to prevent fluctuations in thrust,

Prop throttles have friction locks to prevent the throttles from moving because of vibration.

The type of gust lock depends on the airplane. Single engine Cessna’s have a rod that goes through the control wheel and locks the control wheel in place. On the other end of this rod is a bracket that goes over the throttle to prevent the throttle from being pushed in for takeoff.

Over the years I have seen numerous types of gust locks used in Cessna’s if the original gust lock was lost or broken. All of these did not lock the throttle and takeoff was possible with the gust lock in place. Cessna’s do not have any rudder lock and to prevent wind damage an external lock should be used.

On my C-150 I have a wooden rudder lock that locks the rudder to the vertical fin. As part of my preflight I always move the flight controls through their entire range movement to insure freedom of movement.

On a lot of other single engine airplanes like Pipers the seat belt was used to lock the control wheel, the belt was placed around the wheel and the wheel was pulled all the way back and to one side with the tightened belt.

On the Lockheed JetStar, the ailerons and elevators were hydraulically boosted so no gust lock was needed. The rudder was non hydraulic, so a rudder lock was used to lock the rudder in place. This was a handle near the captains knee and to prevent takeoff with the rudder lock installed it was connected to the throttle quadrant and prevented throttle movement above what was needed to taxi. This rudder lock was usually left engaged until turning onto the runway for takeoff. It was part of the checklist to operate the rudder and flight controls through their full range once the rudder lock was disengaged to make sure that the rudder was unlocked and the other flight controls were free.

In the late 1950’s a DC-4 taking off from LaGuardia Airport failed to remove the gust locks and crashed.


User currently offlineModesto2 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2801 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 15782 times:

The 172's I flew had a metal rod through the control yoke. With the Piper Seminole, I wrap the seatbelt around the yoke. Either way, it prevents the wind from knocking the controls surfaces around keeps everyone happy...

User currently offlineD5DBY From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 15780 times:

thanks for the info, very interesting...i think i get it...and B737 dont have any gust lock because its hydraulic powered.

good thing there are warnings system and a handle that blocks the power lever in order to prevent taking-off with the gust lock active....(on some AC)

and like someone said...its a great idea to operate the rudder and flight controls through their full range in order to make sure the flight controls are free....but thats in the checklist of the planes that have gust locks i guess.....

thanks again


User currently offlineDl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 15748 times:

Actually all airliners with entry doors that swing open have gust locks on the doors. I know that's not what you were talking about but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway.

Dl757Md



757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 15670 times:

Where does the DC-9/MD-80 fall in here with it's tail???

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 15640 times:


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Photo © Julian Whitelaw



Not used on Hydraulically operated Control surfaces.
The B737 does not use them,except for the gust lock for Door in Open position.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 3):
If you don't remove the gust lock, the result will be like the Interflug Il-62 back in 1989 in SXF, which overshot the runway, because they couldn't rotate because the elevator was locked.

Didn't they carry out the Control surface mvmt check prior.
Any link on it.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineBri2k1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 988 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 15601 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
Where does the DC-9/MD-80 fall in here with it's tail???

I had an interesting experience on a MD-80 last week. I knew the elevators drooped until airspeed increased on the takeoff roll, but I didn't realize the ailerons worked similarly. Lining up for departure on 17R at DEN, and seeing the ailerons in a full right-roll position, was disconcerting for a moment -- until airspeed increased and they smoothed right out.



Position and hold
User currently offlineNORTHSEATIGER From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 432 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 15599 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 3):
Gust locks are not needed on aircraft with hydraulically powered control surfaces

Not totally true, helicopters have hydraulically powered control surfaces i.e servo driven and the tail rotor for instance has a mechanical gust lock to privent the flapping stops being damaged in high winds, true for conventional ball bearings and elastomeric bearings.



T's And P's look good....Rotate
User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 15581 times:

Hi guys.

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 5):
Cessna’s have a rod that goes through the control wheel and locks the control wheel in place. On the other end of this rod is a bracket that goes over the throttle to prevent the throttle from being pushed in for takeoff.

The Cessna 150 & 152's that I've flown also had a pin that goes vertically through the control wheel's shaft, but instead of having a bracket attached to the pin that covered the throttle, it had a red metal placard that blocked the ignition switch so you couldn't put the keys in .... as shown in these photos.


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Photo © Pedro Becken - Porto Spotter
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Photo © Erezms



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 5):
Cessna’s do not have any rudder lock and to prevent wind damage an external lock should be used.

On my C-150 I have a wooden rudder lock that locks the rudder to the vertical fin.

You can see two Cessnas with wooden rudder locks on them in this shot. Note the wooden boards on the lock have shag carpeting on the inside to prevent the aircraft's surface from being scratched.


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Photo © Dmitry Kudryn



Here's a photo I took last July of the tail of a 1962 Cessna 150B that was parked at a small grass strip airport that's 45 miles North of Toronto ... where Skydivers jump!

Note the "Home Made" rudder lock that's been made with two ski poles. Only in Canada eh! Big grin




Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15553 times:

It was quite common for older planes such as the DC-3 to have external gust locks like those shown here for rudder, elevator and ailerons.

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Photo © Riku Purmola


It is important to note that there is no warning system in the airplane telling you that they are still installed. That was the real importance of the "control check" on such planes.

I had a friend killed in a C-47 because of this. They taxiied out in some pretty bad weather and had the crewchief get out and put the elevator lock in place while they taxiied a mile or more downwind to get to the end of the departure runway. They then took off with the elevator still externally locked and there is no way to remove it from inside. The IP had more than twenty thousand hours, his student had about ten thousand and the airplane didn't care - it just did what they told it to.

On takeoff it pitched up steeply. They probably realized what they'd done at this point, and sawed the power off. The nose dropped, right straight ahead and they put in a blast of power to catch the sink. They made a valiant effort but it still pancaked in hard enough to kill all three of them.

The crash became a safety-school example of the dangers of "interrupted habit patterns" in that we always do a control check before departing the ramp - right? Then they short-circuited that check by re-installing an external lock after that check. Add a hurry to depart in advance of worsening weather and you have a recipe for this.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1647 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 15430 times:
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Quoting Mr Spaceman (Reply 13):
The Cessna 150 & 152's that I've flown also had a pin that goes vertically through the control wheel's shaft, but instead of having a bracket attached to the pin that covered the throttle, it had a red metal placard that blocked the ignition switch so you couldn't put the keys in .... as shown in these photos.

My C-150 is a 1964 “D” model, straight tail but with the rear windows

Cessna 150’s up until 1969 had a manual pull electric starter, there is a small “T” handle on the upper part of the center section of the instrument panel above the radio’s or below the instrument panel near the pilots left knee in later models. The magneto switch just controlled the magneto’s.

Because there was no electric starter switch the gust lock slipped over the extended throttle shaft to prevent the throttle from being pushed in for takeoff. Later models with the electric starter switch had the gust lock go over the start switch The gust lock pin on the control wheel was horizontal, not vertical las in the later models like you describe.

To start the engine first the master switch was turned on, the magnetos switched to both and then you would pull out this handle about 3 inches. This engaged the electric contactor that allowed battery power to turn the starter. After engine start when the handle was released a spring would pull the handle back in, this also disengaged the starter clutch from the starter gear in the engine. Early C-172’s also had this same type of pull starter.

Quoting Mr Spaceman (Reply 13):
Here's a photo I took last July of the tail of a 1962 Cessna 150B that was parked at a small grass strip airport that's 45 miles North of Toronto ... where Skydivers jump!

Note the "Home Made" rudder lock that's been made with two ski poles. Only in Canada eh!

In 1964 Cessna added balance weights to both the rudder and horizontal stabilizer. The rudder weight was on the upper part of the rudder and I made a rudder lock that had wood pieces on both sides carpeted on the inside and a large bolt that went through the small opening between the rudder and vertical fin, it worked very well.

Because of the way Cessna’s designed the rudder system, there is nothing that locks the rudder in place and the rudder just flops around in the wind when on the ground making it very susceptible to damage. The rudder is attached directly to the rudder pedals by control cables, but the rudder pedals are attached by springs to the nose wheel, which allows the rudder to move in place on the ground. The rudder of my airplane was damaged by winds and repaired by the previous owner. This was a very poor design by Cessna, and they did not even offer any kind of rudder gust lock, they are all homemade.


User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 15407 times:

Hello Jetstar.

Thank You, for the neat info about early model Cessna 150's & 172's. It's very interesting to learn about. Big grin

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 15):
Cessna 150’s up until 1969 had a manual pull electric starter, there is a small “T” handle on the upper part of the center section of the instrument panel above the radio’s or below the instrument panel near the pilots left knee in later models. The magneto switch just controlled the magneto’s.

Here's a shot I took of the instrument panel in that C-150, and you can see the "T"-handle in the top center section of the panel as you described it, however, the radio stack has obviously been removed. This Cessna is parked at an uncontrolled grass airstrip so I guess the owner uses a hand held transceiver which he may connect to the external antenna that's above the cockpit.



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 15):
My C-150 is a 1964 “D” model, straight tail but with the rear windows

Here's a few more shots of this old Cessna. It's got a rather unique paint job. On the side of the engine cowling, across the 3 coloured balloons, the words ..... Little Arctic Wind ...... are painted in white writing.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v373/Thud/Cessna150a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v373/Thud/BeavertonRicci111.jpg

Questions ...........

You can see in the last photo that this Cessna has wing fences. I remember looking at them and thinking they looked "homemade". They seemed very thin & wavy. I believe pop-rivets were used every few inches to fasten them to the upper surface, but screws may have been used. Because of their appearance and the fact that there were no vortex generators as well (on top of the wings & on the vertical fin's sides), I don't think the wing fences are part of a Stall Kit. But I could be wrong!

So my questions are ..... Did all 1962 Cessna 150s come from the factory with wing fences installed, or were they a factory option? Or has this C-150 been modified with the addition of just wing fences & no vortex generators?

Thanks,

Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1647 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 15362 times:
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Quoting Mr Spaceman (Reply 16):
So my questions are ..... Did all 1962 Cessna 150s come from the factory with wing fences installed, or were they a factory option? Or has this C-150 been modified with the addition of just wing fences & no vortex generators?

Cessna never offered wing fences, drooped wing tips or vortex generators for the C-150 or C-172 series. There are aftermarket STC’d kits available which include these and also wing gap seals.

Judging by the interior photo of the instrument panel and the rudder pedals, I would say that this ether a 1961 or 1962 C-150. The first 150’s had the old style C-140 instrument panel with the artificial horizon in the center of the panel. In 1961 Cessna changed over to the type of panel this plane has. Also the early C-150’s had the C-140 type round rudder pedals and they changed over to the square pedals in 1963. Basically the first C-150’s were just tri-gear C-140’s with some updating.

I am presently doing a frame up restoration of my 1964 C-150D, it is in my garage totally disassembled down to the bare interior. One of my concerns was corrosion, being based in the Northeast for all its life. Fortunately the areas of concern in the wing to fuselage areas were free from corrosion, but there was enough corrosion under some wing panels that I had to remove them, treat them for corrosion and rivet them back. The corrosion was just on the surface and had not yet eaten through the alclad so I was able to save the pieces.

A great concern regarding corrosion in older single engine 100 series Cessna’s is in the wing spar blocks and the wing carry through spar in the upper front of the fuselage above the door post, this is where the wing connects to the fuselage. Extensive corrosion has been found in this area because water can leak in and there is no drain hole for the water to drain out. Most of this corrosion has been found in airplanes based in a salt air environment. The only real way to inspect this area is to pull the wings off and remove the spar blocks. The FAA has in the past indicated this if more problems exist in this area they would issue an AD requiring a one time inspection requiring the wings to be removed.

My 1964 C-150 had an interesting life. During the mid 1960’s, the FAA required all airline flight crew members to be pilots, this included flight engineers. In the piston airline days, the flight engineer was not a pilot, he just held a FE rating but with the jet days the FAA wanted 3 pilots in the cockpit. So all the airline FE’s had to go out and get their commercial pilots license, even though they would never touch the flight controls.

Pan American World Airways contracted with at that time a small flight training service named Flight Safety based in the Marine Air Terminal at LaGuardia Airport to train their FE’s. FSI bought a new fleet of about 25 1964 C-150’s, based them on Long Island and used them for all this training. Since the FAA regulations required a minimum of 200 hours of flight time to qualify for a commercial pilots license, besides touch and go’s, they were also used for the cross country training to build up their time. Because of all this X-C time, these airplanes did not have as much T/G’s as most C-150 trainers, spending most of its time flying straight and level.

After the contract was completed in 1967, FSI sold off all the airplanes with about 3300 hours on them. Mine was purchased by a fellow who based it at Stormville Airport in New York, he put only about 70 hours in the one and a half year he owned it so he decided to sell it. I purchased it in April 1968 and have had it ever since, so I am only the third owner.

When I bought this airplane, I was working as an A&P for a small FBO so I was able to use the shop facilities and purchase parts at a discount. I had the engine overhauled by Mattituck, but I removed the engine, drove it out to them and did all the installation work myself.

For the second engine overhaul while I was working for a corporate flight department, I did all the work myself in the shop, I just used outside sources for parts and inspections on the steel parts. I did this over the winter when I usually grounded the airplane anyway. When the JetStar was out on a trip, I had plenty of time and would often bring my airplane over to the hangar during the day and work on it. My chief pilot didn’t care what I did, as long as the JetStar’s maintenance and paperwork was up to date and the shop was clean, but I did almost all the maintenance on my airplane, including the engine overhaul on company time.

Being an A&P with an IA has its advantages when it comes to owning an airplane.


User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8268 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15347 times:

Quoting Gmidy (Reply 1):
Most props have gust locks on the throttles to prevent fluctuations in thrust

We have throttle locks to keep them from being stolen... and a friction knob to keep it from slipping... but gust locks are for the flight controls, not the throttles.



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 15338 times:

Hello Jetstar.

Thank You, for sharing some of the details of your Cessna's history. It does sound like your 1964 C-150D has had an interesting life so far. I suspect most private owners of older GA aircraft have interesting stories to tell about their aircraft's entire history before they owned it.

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 17):
Judging by the interior photo of the instrument panel and the rudder pedals, I would say that this ether a 1961 or 1962 C-150.

As I mentioned earlier, the Cessna 150B in my photo was built in 1962. Here's it's info from the Transport Canada civil aircraft registry.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/activep...&x_sort=1&x_start=0&x_searchtype=2

In the 37+ years that you've owned your Cessna, have you enjoyed putting a few more hours on it's engine and airframe? Dumb question eh!

Thanks for explaining that Cessna never offered wing fences, drooped wing tips or vortex generators for the C-150 or C-172 series, and that aftermarket STC kits are available (I guess that's how the 150 in my photos got it's fences & wingtips). Regarding the wing gap seals in those kits, are they located at the wing root of a C-150 and protrude forward of the leading edge a few inches. The C-150 in my photos has objects at the roots that are like this.

What are these seals for? Do they prevent fuel leaks?

I hope the frame up restoration job you're doing in your garage is going good and that the reassembly of your C-150D is free of hassles.

"Being an A&P with an IA has its advantages when it comes to owning an airplane." I'm sure it does. I bet it saves you on down time in a shop, plus money, and all the work you do on her must really make you know and appreciate your airplane so much more than the average owner.


Chris

[Edited 2005-09-01 03:34:14]


"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1647 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 15256 times:
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Quoting Mr Spaceman (Reply 19):
Regarding the wing gap seals in those kits, are they located at the wing root of a C-150 and protrude forward of the leading edge a few inches. The C-150 in my photos has objects at the roots that are like this.

What are these seals for? Do they prevent fuel leaks?

When the flaps are retracted, there is a gap between the leading edge of the retracted flap and the bottom of the wing. This causes a little disturbance in the air flow drag because the surface is not aerodynamically smooth. A gap seal is just a long strip of aluminum riveted flush to the lower edge of the wing that encloses the gap to make it aerodynamically smoother. Usually this gap seal can result in an increase of about 3 to 4 mph in cruise. An Aileron gap seal does the same to the gap between the aileron and the wing.

I know of people who have done full aerodynamic cleanups on their Cessna’s by closing up all the gaps and installing fairings around the nose strut and wing struts and installing newer design wheel pants and have increased the cruise speed by almost 10 mph.


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 15248 times:
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Quoting Jetstar (Reply 15):
To start the engine first the master switch was turned on, the magnetos switched to both and then you would pull out this handle about 3 inches. This engaged the electric contactor that allowed battery power to turn the starter.



So, is it accurate to say the T-handle is a manual starter solenoid?




Quoting Jetstar (Reply 20):
An Aileron gap seal does the same to the gap between the aileron and the wing.



Does this alter the effect Friese ailerons have on adverse yaw?

Thanks for the story on your 150, Jetstar. It was an interesting read. Any pics of it on the web?



2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1647 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 15240 times:
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Quoting 2H4 (Reply 21):
So, is it accurate to say the T-handle is a manual starter solenoid?

The T-handle is attached to a pull cable the pulls a bellcrank on the starter to engage the starter drive into the engine. When the engine starter drive or pinion is fully engaged the bellcrank pushes on the starter contactor to supply electricity to the starter.

From the Cessna 150 maintenance manual.

12-28. MANUALLY ENGAGED STARTING SYSTEMS employ a manually operated overrunning clutch drive pinion to transmit power from the electric starter motor to the crankshaft starter drive gear. A knob or handle on the instrument panel is connected by a flexible control to a lever on the starter. This lever shifts the starter drive pinion into the engaged position, then closes the starter switch contacts when the starter knob or handle is pulled. The starter lever is attached to a return spring which returns the lever and the flexible control to the off position. When the engine starts, the overrunning action of the clutch protects the starter drive pinion until the shift lever can be released to disengage the pinion.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 21):
Does this alter the effect Friese ailerons have on adverse yaw?

I have no idea, you would have to contact the STC holder to get this information.


User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 15224 times:

Hi guys.

>> Jetstar, Thanks for explaining what a Gap Seal is. They sound like another great feature that Cessna (and other manufacturers) didn't provide.

Here's a sentence from the first link below..........

"Sealing these gaps will gain you approximately five to six M.P.H. in cruise speed and fifty feet per minute in rate of climb. You get an added bonus of lower stall speed and much greater aileron effectiveness."

These links have photos of aileron, flap, flap/fuselage & stabilator Gap Seals.

http://www.laminarflowsystems.com/lfs_aileron_gapseal.htm

http://www.laminarflowsystems.com/lfs_flap_gapseals.htm

http://www.knots2u.com/cessna-gs.htm

http://www.knots2u.com/2832GS.htm

http://www.oxaero.com/OxAero-ControlSeals.asp


Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1647 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 15218 times:
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Mr. Spaceman, looks like you did some interesting research on the gap seals.

One modification I did to my C-150 was to install a larger baggage compartment from a later model 150 in my airplane. Cessna 150’s until 1965 had a small, about 18 inch baggage area behind the seats. Behind this was a hat shelf about 2 feet long. When Cessna changed to the rear windows in 1964, they kept this hat shelf. In 1966 when they changed to the swept tail, they installed a larger baggage compartment which they kept for the rest of the production including the C-152 series. This hat shelf was useless, only certified for 15 pounds, so I decided to install the larger compartment from the later models.

Before I did this I researched using the parts manual and found that the lower aft fuselage was the same part number for my 1964 model was used in the 1966 model. All Cessna did was add a lower floor panel and some brackets to the fuselage to support the lower panel and plastic side panels. I showed the FAA inspector who used to come to our shop once a week what my plans were and he said that as long as I used the original parts from the 1966 model, he saw no problem in it being approved.

I went to a salvage yard and got all the parts I needed for about 50 dollars and in one day with a fellow A&P we riveted in the new floor panel and brackets. I filled out the required FAA form 337 and signed it off as the inspector and the FAA signed it off on a field approval. Now I had a large capacity baggage compartment.

Over the years I upgraded the avionics by buying second hand radios. We had an avionics shop in the hangar where I worked and a lot of times they upgraded other airplanes with the latest radios. Some of the radios that were removed were in very good condition and less than 3 years old, the radio shop did not take trade ins, the radios were the property of the airplane owner. Some of their customers were our customers as well and I was able to buy these radios for very little money. I got a Narco transponder this way, had the avionics shop send it out to be TSO’d, installed a blind encoding altimeter and had the avionics shop certify it. I also got other items like a marker beacon and intercom for nothing.

Some of our customers were very wealthy and would buy new batteries every year for their airplanes. Most small airplane batteries are the same so I would take one of these and put it in my airplane. In all the years I owned my airplane I only bought one battery.

The same for main wheel bearings, there was a corporate Grumman Gulfstream1 based in the hangar, when they sold the airplane they had a supply of new wheel bearings in their spare parts. The nose wheel bearing on the G1 are the same Timken bearing by part number as the main wheel bearing in C-150’s and 172’s. I knew the chief of maintenance real well so he gave me some of the new nose wheel bearings he had.

Another modification I will be doing during my restoration is changing from the 35 amp generator to a higher capacity alternator used in the later models. By wiring it the same as the later models as per Cessna’s wiring diagrams, I can get it field approved by the FAA the same way I did the baggage compartment.

I had the seats completely redone by a friend who works for an aircraft interior shop in exchange for some flying time. The seats were recovered in a roll and pleated vinyl and extra padding and are much better than the original seats.

I also will be removing the pull starter for a fully electric starter, but will not be using the one Cessna installed in the later 150’s. The fully electric key starters did not have a bendix drive to engage the starter, the drive gear was always engaged and turned with the engine using a clutch mechanism and these clutches have a tendency to wear and are very expensive. There is a aftermarket STC’d fully electric key starter with a bendix drive available for Cessna 150’s, to replace both the manual and electric starters.

I plan on replacing all the old style flight instruments with newer lighter instruments. All the early Cessna’s had surplus WW2 artificial horizons and gyro compasses. I have built a new instrument panel for the flight instruments but keeping the rest of the instrument panel. I also am replacing the old style fuses with circuit breakers from later model Cessna’s. When my restoration is complete I will have the plane painted in its original paint design, the airplane has never been repainted, it still has its original paint.

The 1964 and its twin 1965 models had the rear window, straight tail, manual flaps and manual pull starter. In 1966 Cessna went to the swept tail for styling reasons and changed to electric flaps. In 1969 Cessna dropped the pull starter for the key starter. In the later models Cessna also widened the landing gear and changed from the spring steel main landing gear leg to the tubular steel leg.

The fastest Cessna 150’s were the pre 1964 models without the rear windows and known as fastbacks or straight backs, the 150 lost a few mph when they added the rear window because of aerodynamics. When Cessna swept the tail for styling reasons they also lost some of the rudder authority and a few years later Cessna extended the vertical fin and rudder 6 inches higher to regain this loss, this also caused some more drag and again the 150 lost a few more mph.

I was able to cruise my 150 at about 108 mph at cruise rpm using about 6 gallons per hour. With 22 ½ gallons of useable fuel, this gave me about 3½ hours range.
C-150’s are not the most comfortable airplanes and at 3 hours it was about time to land and stretch my legs I never trusted the fuel gages even though they work okay, I would use a clock and at the 3 hour mark I would be approaching the airport for landing.

Using the big flaps Cessna is famous for in their high wing airplanes and heavy braking, I was able to land in less than 500 feet. Because of the narrow landing gear track a crosswind landing could be tricky because it could go up on one main wheel and like the Piper Cub’s you had to fly it on the ground in windy conditions with aileron and elevator.

Crosswind landings were easier than other airplanes because of the way Cessna designed the nose wheel steering system. Unlike Piper’s and other airplanes where the nose wheel was attached directly to the rudder pedals by push rods and to the rudder by a cable. Cessna nose wheels were indirectly connected to the rudder pedals by a spring loaded nose gear steering tube. This meant that the nose wheel would be in the centered position even if full rudder was being used during a crosswind landing and when the nose wheel touched the runway it was aligned with the runway. It is because of this design that allowed the rudder to move in windy conditions causing damage because Cessna never had any rudder lock. In a Piper when any rudder was applied, the nose wheel would be aligned in the same direction and when the nose wheel touched the runway, the airplane would head in the direction the nose wheel was facing. This wasn’t as bad as it sounds, the airplane would just align with the nose wheel when the nose wheel touched down.

Just thought I'd share some tidbits of information from owning the same airplane for over 37 years.


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