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737NG Flight Deck Display Formats  
User currently offlineZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1413 posts, RR: 5
Posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4848 times:

Hi guys

Sorry if this has been discussed before (I have done a search  Smile )

I've noticed that the MFDs in the 737NG cockpit have 2 different formats that generally seem to be the same across a certain airline's fleet, for instance WN's 73Gs on the left and U2's on the right:


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Photo © Matthew Hom
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Photo © CameraBoy



I've heard that these modes are interchangeable but require a few hours with an engineer. Is there a general preference? Why is the option available?

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6972 posts, RR: 76
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4829 times:

1 emulates the 737 classic format, the other is the proper NG format, following the 777 style.

The options are available to cut down conversion times and provide better pilot interchangeability between the 733/4/5 and the 736/7/8/9

I think you can go from one format to the other at a flick of a switch... but hey, I never been on an NG before  Smile

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineAvioniker From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1109 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4812 times:

A little more than the flick of a switch but not all that incredibly difficult if you're acquiring a plane and want it configured.
A bit of strapping and some software mods...



One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
User currently offlineIFixPlanes From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4755 times:

It is only a Software change
Config 1(Compacted Mode)


Config 2



never tell an engineer he is wrong ;-)
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4755 times:

Nice Sketches.How did you get the Thumbnail size.
 bigthumbsup 
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineB727230 From Sweden, joined Aug 2005, 62 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4720 times:

It is indeed a pin option in the software like Avioniker said above. In a simulator, the change is made by pressing a button when the cockpit is powered off.

Certain European airlines, like Maersk, Luxair and Hamburg Airlines are using the EADI/EHSI (classic) layout.



Wieder in die Sonne fliegen
User currently offlineLorM From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 409 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4704 times:

Quoting B727230 (Reply 5):
It is indeed a pin option in the software like Avioniker said above. In a simulator, the change is made by pressing a button when the cockpit is powered off.

Boeing promo material (brochures, pamphlets) and like IfixPlanes said, states it is changed by a software loaded disk. So there might be two ways to change the format. In any case..

There are two pages available on the lower EICAS screen that can be viewed when an aircraft has the PFD/ND (777 style) format. Each page is activated by pressing the ENG or SYS button located by the autobrakes switch. In aircraft using the EFIS/MAP (classic EADI/EHSI) format the buttons are marked INOP and the lower EICAS screen is blank.

In setup 2 IfixPlanes' picture shows the PFD/ND setup. The screen on the right is the lower EICAS ENG page. Picture below is the SYS page which shows flight control surface positions and hydraulic fluid quantity and pressure:



Boeing also has a few optionals for operators on the PFD style screen - VOR in localizer display, show groundspeed (under the airspeed tape), Angle of Attack (to the right of FD and below G/S), and a Rising Runway display (green rectangles just below the horizon on 5 degrees).



Picture displayed is a PFD setup in a single channel autopilot approach. A dual coupled autoland would have displayed FLARE under G/S.IKOA is the current ILS selected 174 degrees localizer heading/DME at 1.9 (note both radios are selected at IKOA, with one it would be crossed out). At the top in green, RETARD, VOR/LOC, and G/S (glideslope) are displaying the current mode in the autopilot FMA - flight mode annunciator. RETARD is in the THRUST mode selection, VOR/LOC is in the ROLL mode selection, and G/S is in the PITCH mode selection. FD is showing the flight director is active. 26 is the radio altimeter altitude in feet. RADIO 200 showing minimums/decision height using radio altimeter. Tape on the left is airspeed, 131 autothrottle speed selected, REF speed is just under 130kts (seems like 131 is +5 for wind correction). Tape on the right showing MSL altitude with 29.98 as the barometric pressure. Far right tape is the vertical speed tape/ needle. Bottom, HSI compass style display with 130 autopilot heading in magenta. Meters for altitude can also be displayed pressing MTRS button located on the display control panel.

Some airlines using EFIS/MAP (classic/EADI/EHSI):
Air Berlin, Air Europa, Continental, Southwest, Varig
PFD/ND (777 style): American, Delta, Lauda, Qantas, VirginBlue

-LorM

[Edited 2005-09-15 02:23:24]


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User currently offlineTroubleshooter From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 423 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4676 times:

LorM,

well done explanation!  checkmark   bigthumbsup 



This job sucks!!! I love this job!!!
User currently offlineB727230 From Sweden, joined Aug 2005, 62 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4675 times:

Quoting LorM (Reply 6):
Boeing promo material (brochures, pamphlets) and like IfixPlanes said, states it is changed by a software loaded disk. So there might be two ways to change the format.

If I may correct myself, it is changed by loading a disk in the real aircraft. The pin option I mentioned is something we can set in the simulator's configuration file. The contents of that disk is already in the simulator host, so the pin is pointing to the respective data load. I am quite sure though that the loading is much faster in the simulator than in the real acft. Not sure if the disk is loaded in the E&E compartment or if they use the Data Loader diskdrive on the flight deck but to compare, loading an NDB with 500 records takes ages... and changing display configurations is for maintenance crew only, as far as I know.

Can add to the list of PFD/ND operators:
SAS, SAS Braathens, Sterling, Britannia, Ryanair to name a few

[Edited 2005-09-15 02:58:02]


Wieder in die Sonne fliegen
User currently offlineIFixPlanes From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4632 times:

Hapag Lloyd also uses Config 2


never tell an engineer he is wrong ;-)
User currently offlineZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1413 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4580 times:

Thanks for all the info guys.

One last thing - is there any "commercial" benefit to this option? Does it mean any less time needed for training? For instance if a pilot has a 733/734/735 type rating he wouldn't need much conversion training for the 737NG with the old-style setup? (Wouldn't have thought so, just want to understand the reasoning - seems unique)


User currently offlineTroubleshooter From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 423 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4546 times:

I don´t know if less training for conversion is required, but pilots told me it´s easier to move from a Classic to a NG with this option in a mixed fleet operation. I think this is the actual benefit.


This job sucks!!! I love this job!!!
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17186 posts, RR: 66
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4521 times:

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 10):
One last thing - is there any "commercial" benefit to this option? Does it mean any less time needed for training?

Definitely a lot of commercial benefit depending on your fleet makeup.

There are other cases of this. SAS MD-80s have (had?) the parts of the PFD display disabled in order to make it easier for DC-9/MD-80 pilots.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineRedDragon From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 1135 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4517 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 12):
SAS MD-80s have (had?) the parts of the PFD display disabled in order to make it easier for DC-9/MD-80 pilots.

MD-80s or MD-90s? (In the first instance... or maybe the second...  Smile)

Rich


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17186 posts, RR: 66
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4512 times:

Quoting RedDragon (Reply 13):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 12):
SAS MD-80s have (had?) the parts of the PFD display disabled in order to make it easier for DC-9/MD-80 pilots.

MD-80s or MD-90s? (In the first instance... or maybe the second... Smile)

Rich

Pretty sure it was MD-80s.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineLorM From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 409 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4495 times:

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 10):

One last thing - is there any "commercial" benefit to this option? Does it mean any less time needed for training? For instance if a pilot has a 733/734/735 type rating he wouldn't need much conversion training for the 737NG with the old-style setup? (Wouldn't have thought so, just want to understand the reasoning - seems unique)



Hawk, use www.imageshack.us when hosting images. Thats what we the for thumbnail. 1 meg file limit per file so no need to worry about image space. It's free.

-LorM



Brick Windows
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4455 times:

Quoting LorM (Reply 15):
Hawk, use www.imageshack.us when hosting images. Thats what we the for thumbnail. 1 meg file limit per file so no need to worry about image space. It's free.

Thanks.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineB727230 From Sweden, joined Aug 2005, 62 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4448 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 12):
There are other cases of this. SAS MD-80s have (had?) the parts of the PFD display disabled in order to make it easier for DC-9/MD-80 pilots.

Which parts would that be? I'm working with the MD-80 flight deck daily but haven't noticed anything extraordinary. Might be because I've just done it for a couple of years though.



Wieder in die Sonne fliegen
User currently offlineZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1413 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4430 times:

Quoting LorM (Reply 15):

What's the difference between 733/4/5 EFIS and non-EFIS flight decks? I've done a photo search and I'm not sure what to look out for. I've seen some slightly different layouts but not in relation to the EFIS display.


User currently offlineZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1413 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4430 times:

Ok found one  Smile

Am I right in thinking the photo on the left is non-EFIS while the one on the right is EFIS?


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Photo © Ben Graden
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Photo © WEIMENG



User currently offlineB727230 From Sweden, joined Aug 2005, 62 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4403 times:

That would be correct, ZSOFN.  Smile


Wieder in die Sonne fliegen
User currently offlineJetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2577 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4385 times:

Yes, but the 733/4/5 EFIS also had different format displays, either PFD/ND or EADI/EHSI, selected by program pins. So it's not simply a question of EFIS and non-EFIS.

I guess it all depended on what style of instrumentation an airline's first 737s had and whether they wanted to keep commonality or not. Whatever the case, all 737s have a common type rating.

Note the left hand picture has traditional (round dial) engine displays and the right hand picture has the later electronic engine indicators. Airlines could, and did, specify EFIS flight instruments (PFD or traditional style) combined with the round dial engine displays.



The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
User currently offlineZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1413 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4379 times:

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 21):
Note the left hand picture has traditional (round dial) engine displays and the right hand picture has the later electronic engine indicators

I noticed that variation too. It seems the 733/4/5 has the most varied flight deck of all modern(ish) airliners!

Wonder why U2 didn't have the EFIS style setup on their 737NGs for commonality's sake?


User currently offlineJetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2577 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks ago) and read 4376 times:

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 22):
It seems the 733/4/5 has the most varied flight deck of all modern(ish) airliners!

Take a trawl through the many photos of 747-100/200/300 flight decks on A.Net. The variations are staggering.



The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
User currently offlineZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1413 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks ago) and read 4377 times:

Cheers Jetlagged, will do.

Seems an interesting contrast to Airbus' philosophy on flight deck commonality.


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