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13R Approach In JFK  
User currently offlineLevg79 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1013 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 15732 times:

Hello everyone!

This is a question that's been bothering me for some time so I decided to ask here. I'm sure there are pilots out there who fly into JFK. I know that runway 13R is not equipped with ILS and that is probably why most landings are on 13L. While spotting at JFK the other day, I saw a JL 744 land on 13R. I understand he should've done visual approach (correct me if I'm wrong), but the landing looked perfect.

My question is... how difficult is it to visually land a 744? Wouldn't it be much easier to do ILS approach to 13L? Or does the long taxi from 13L back to T1 outweights this option?



A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
4 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 15717 times:

Flying a visual with a 744 is no big deal. It's the same principle as a 757 or a J3. You establish your self on final, and set a 3 degree descent. That is about 800-850FPM. You can monitor your vertical alignment with the PAPI/VASI.

Trust me, it's not a big deal at all!!!!

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 22865 posts, RR: 53
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 15664 times:

The only reason 13L has an ILS is for times when visibility is too low for a Cat I approach, and crosswinds are too strong to use the Cat III runway, which is 4R/22L. This is obviously a rare scenario, and I've never heard of the ILS to 13L being used - doing so would screw up EWR and LGA operations.

99.9% of the time, arrivals on 13L and 13R at JFK use the VOR approach, otherwise known as the Canarsie approach. It's mostly done visually, and is basically a long base leg into the airport, followed by a right turn to the runway - similar to, but not as drastic as - the checkerboard approach to Kai Tak.

Here's the approach plate, depicting how it works:

Most planes doing the approach will land on 13L, since departures generally use the longer 13R. However, airlines with terminals closer to 13R will request to land there, and ATC will allow it if it won't interfere with other traffic. Likewise, airlines closer to 13L will request to takeoff on 13L, and ATC will sometimes allow it, and sometimes deny it because there are too many arrivals to work out departure slot.


7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineModesto2 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2898 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 15627 times:

Mir is right, many airlines that operate closer to 13R, such as Delta, may request 13R for arrival instead of the usual 13L. When 13 operations are in use, 13L is primarily for arrival and 13R is for departures.

User currently offlineB744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 15576 times:

flying an airplane isn't as hard as you think, especially after years of practice to be behind the yoke of a 747

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