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Can A FS Pilot Make A Regular Flight?  
User currently offlineD5DBY From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6898 times:

can a well-trained flight sim pilot make a regular flight with like a Boeing AC?

i know this has been up before...but I cant find that topic with the search function..so can u please post a link or something 2 make me find that thread?

if u like please post any comments on this also.....thanks in advance..  Smile

102 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6965 posts, RR: 76
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6878 times:

search:
"Civilian handling BAe146 or larger aircraft" on the old Tech Ops topics...
there were a couple of these threads around 2002...

But the answer is difficult because one doesn't know what well trained in FS is... what paywares/addons does the person normally use... and the mental character of the person.

Simplest answer would be: NO.
Put a lot of IFs into the condition and you might get a yes... but not without a scratch.
mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineBri2k1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 988 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6873 times:

On the other hand, I went from years of flying MSFS with yoke and pedals to the Class D simulators at United's training facility at Stapleton in Denver. I handled the big birds quite well, per the instructors, especially for never having manipulated the controls of a real aircraft.

As a student pilot, I have great respect for the pilots who fly these big, complex airplanes. But, the basic control inputs are fairly straightforward, and a high-sim-time "pilot" could probably do things like adjust engine power and change bank and pitch angles.

Bringing the large plane to a safe landing is another matter. It probably wouldn't happen. But all of us sim pilots and low-time private pilots secretly wish we'd get the opportunity one day, don't we?  Wink Why else would you be asking?

Remember, a good landing is one you can walk away from; a great landing is one in which the plane can be flown again. You might have a remote chance at the first category.



Position and hold
User currently offlineCorey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2528 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6864 times:

Quoting Bri2k1 (Reply 2):
I handled the big birds quite well, per the instructors, especially for never having manipulated the controls of a real aircraft.

There's a difference between flying a plane and "manipulating the controls"... There's no way a flight sim'er will be able to handle flying the plane, navigating, managing the systems, talking to ATC, handling emergencies, etc, etc.

On the other hand I'm sure a flight sim "enthusiast" would be able to take the controls of a plane at altitude and be able perform some turns and other "normal" maneuvers without driving the plane into the ground.


User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3152 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6860 times:

Even when flying the cessna on the sim I'd say no. FS is neat, but it's nowhere near the real thing. There are many variables that FS can't replicate. Things happen much "faster" in real life. There's no pause button, and things like checklists and radios don't magically appear with the click of a mouse button. The only thing I've found bennificial with FS is instrument procedures. Even then, there are many differences from the real thing.


DMI
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6863 times:

Keep in mind that just "aiming" the airplane is a tiny part of flying it. The 9/11 hijackers managed to steer their airplanes to targets despite some of them being what their flight instructors called "terrible" students. I found FS to be an exercise in maneuvering a pixel and very much unlike operating a big collection of systems that is an airliner.

At one airline a non-pilot simulator tech could do things in a 727 simulator that few of the line pilots could equal. What he could not do was pass a routine proficiency check. I don't know if he was ever given any stick time in the real thing.

In FS I was able to land a Learjet on an aircraft carrier and on the road deck of the Golden Gate bridge. I would not attempt either of those feats in a real Lear. On the other hand I was never able to fly it through the blimp hangars at Moffet and I believe I could do that easily enough with the real thing.

About the only practical application I've ever seen for FS is this. If you are rusty in your instrument flying, or lack actual IFR experience - before you take a real flight or a checkride you might do this: Throw a party! Invite a bunch of rowdy friends over and get them drunk. Then you sit in a room full of drunks and fly your FS for keeps, you crash - you die! Take a hammer to your computer and don't ever fly FS again. If you can fly it and comply with procedures etc. with all that going on around you, you just might be ready to take a real IFR flight.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineGeoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6828 times:

There was a true story several years ago of somebody who went up in a light aircraft with his pilot friend (I think it was on "999" for our UK TV friends). This person had never flown before, or played any flight sims. The pilot had a heart attack while they were up, and he was all alone at the controls of the plane. After managing to contact ATC/tower (can't remember which) he was talked through a landing by a local instructor who happened to be in the area at the time. He managed to land the plane in one piece, the pilot was rushed to hospital, and both were fine.

Okay, so this was not a 747 full of passengers, but the moral of the story is "never say never". It CAN happen.

Geoff M.


User currently offlineVio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1446 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6820 times:

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

What I've learned from Flight Simulator won't do me any good in a real world situation. What I had before starting flight training is "an idea" of what is where and how it's done.

If I were stuck in a situation where I would be required to fly an aircraft (say a 737), I'd probably establish contact with the appropriate ATC and have someone walk me step by step through what needs to be done. I'm sure I'd bring that aircraft close to the airport, etc, but to actually land it, that would be another story...

Strictly based on Flight Simulator... I'd say NO. It can't be done. There are so many factors that affect flight, that I don't even know where to begin and end.

Cheers,
Vio



Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6806 times:

If you have ever sat on an airliners cockpit seat in real life like a 737, then you will know the answer. A flight simulator pilot would be able to fly the 737 to the scene of the crash. An Airbus on the other hand is a different story.  Smile

User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6965 posts, RR: 76
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6806 times:

Even my CatB 3 axis 732 simulator session *a nice 5hrs worth going through everything in the book* with only flying Flight Sim beforehand was errr... "difficult"... that's with all the limitations, manuals and emergency procs read and learnt beforehand!

Flying may be easy for some, but throw in a couple of warning lights or even just a Master Caution warning can put the plane waaaay ahead of you... that's when trouble starts and maybe your life's time to go counter has started...

Here's my advise for those walking into a cockpit with dead pilots... regardless if you have 1 or 1 million FlightSim hours with full realism. (Boeings only)
1. Leave the autopilot as it is. Leave the trim and throttles as it is.
2. Grab a headset...
3. Look at the yoke and find 2 buttons... one a thumb trigger (not the trim please), the other an index finger trigger... find out which one has written "A/P Disconnect" on it... and never press that button.
4. Call on the radio... no sound/reply? tune to 121.5...
5. find the tranponder, try and see if you go to 7700 or jsut press the ident button.
6. Follow EVERY instructions... don't try to be smart.

Even non simmers with zero flying hours can make the aircraft end up on the ground in airport perimeter (albeit maybe in pieces but not a CFIT) if contact can be established and assistance fully obeyed.

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6793 times:

Quoting Vio (Reply 7):
I'd probably establish contact with the appropriate ATC and have someone walk me step by step through what needs to be done.

That brings up a related question. I've wondered for years if someone did that, how long it would take some random ATC facility to get someone on the microphone who is familiar with the plane you are strapped to, and has the cool necessary to talk you through it.

Pilots, would you want to attempt to talk down a non-pilot at the controls? Remember you are probably not sitting in a cockpit, but in a control tower cab. They always show this happening in movies but I do wonder what the reality is. Would the FAA even be permitted to call someone? Would that make the USG liable? Would "good samaritan" laws protect them?

I know lots of controllers are pilots but I've never met one qualified in the 737.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6782 times:

I remember a british(?) documentary where a low time PPL on the left seat landed a 747 with just a few tips from the 747 type rated crew. It was firm, but the plane came down in one piece. The host is some rockstar and flies 757s IIRC regularly for a european airline.

User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6774 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 10):
That brings up a related question. I've wondered for years if someone did that, how long it would take some random ATC facility to get someone on the microphone who is familiar with the plane you are strapped to, and has the cool necessary to talk you through it.

With the prevalence of air phones and F/As with cells, why not just have an F/A call the company direct vs bothering with ATC? From there it should be a fairly easy matter to get the chief pilot for that type aircraft or perhaps a company instructor on the line.

Heck the F/As have probably got the number for crew scheduling programmed in their cell.


User currently offlineVio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1446 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6769 times:

SlamClick,

I would imagine the airline that would be in that unfortunate position would try to assist the "pilot flying" in any way they can. Since the 737 was used as an example, we'll stick with that.

I'm strictly speculating procedures here. I have no clue as to what protocol is followed in such situations. Let's say that I was 737 rated pilot and they would require my assistance, I would definitely give it and not worry about what consequences would hunt me should anything go wrong. I really doubt any court would actually try to prosecute a "good samaritan", as you put it.

Besides, it would be practically impossible for someone to foresee anything that could go wrong with the aircraft. It would totally depend on how well the "person flying" is educated in regards to piloting and how well he relays the information to the advising pilot on the ground.

I would imagine their #1 priority is to get that aircraft to a remote area/landing strip, where the possibility of further deaths on the ground is limited or eliminated altogether. After that... I really have no clue what would happen. Try to teach them to use the Autopilot? Hand fly it? I really doubt anyone without flight experience on a large plane can manually land a 737. At best, as I have mentioned in previous replies, they'd crash it on the airport grounds.


If I were in that possition... with the experience I have so far (PPL), I would try to get information on some of the critical things I would have to watch out for. Speeds, flap settings, decent rates, etc. I woud ask LOTS AND LOTS of questions and listen very careful to what they advise. I sure hope I never end up in that possition.


This is my 2 cents... which of course it's worth nothing, considering that the closest I've been to flying a 737, is sit in the cockpit of one for about 15 minutes.



Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6758 times:

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 12):
why not just have an F/A call the company direct vs bothering with ATC?

Of course you have to keep ATC in the loop, but I was really thinking about those corny movies back in the days before cell phones.

I had the chief pilot's office on speed dial but I don't know if there is anyone in that place that actually knows how to fly an airplane.  Smile

Okay, let's make it a Duchess or a Seneca or a Cessna 310. No chief pilot, no training department staffed with guys just waiting for an opportunity to be a hero. You are up with the owner/pilot and he has a heart attack.

Happened at Renton Washington a few years back, in a C-210 IIRC. Damaged the plane extensively but no injuries.

My question was really about your local control tower. Do they have numbers to call in this event?



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6729 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 14):
Of course you have to keep ATC in the loop, but I was really thinking about those corny movies back in the days before cell phones.

Yeah you got to keep ATC in the game but they wouldn't need to teach a guy to land the thing. If the airline involved had a top flight Emergency Operations Center they could handle all the ATC coordination on the ground, hopefully inconjunction with the instructor pilot, and take the ATC burden off our theoretical flight simmer altogether.

A 310 or a Douchess? I thought that's why those pilots got their spouses a few hours with an instructor..... other than that I suppose they just call the local FBO & see who's available..... Could be worse... Could be a neurosurgeon and spouse in a Citation with grandkids in the back.


User currently offlineRightWayUp From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6691 times:

This question has come up many times before, but one thing that is often overlooked is that todays big sims are really quite easy to fly. With zero wind no turbulence selected it really is quite easy to fly. How often in real life do you have a completely smooth atmosphere to fly in. I believe overcontrolling of a jet in those circumstances could quite quickly lead to an upset.

User currently offlineLoggy From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6688 times:

I am only an fs rated pilot  Smile, but I have landed 767, 777, 747, and tomorrow I'm going try my hand at the 737ng. Ok not the actual things but the simulators at Heathrow and tomorrow the 737 at Gatwick. I had my first hour in the 75/6 bought for me as a present (£300 hour) from the wife about 7 years ago and absolutely loved it, SO much that I've treated myself to a session every year or so since, 1 hour 777, 2 hours 747, and tomorrow 2 hours 737. Get the missus to buy you a session from these guys http://www.virtualaviation.co.uk/ look out for the special deals because it is quite expensive otherwise. I agree I'd not be able to handle the systems and such of a real aircraft in flight, but give me one in vfr and I'd have a good go, but then I'm not just an FS simmer anymore am I !  Smile.

User currently onlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3494 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6675 times:

Quoting Loggy (Reply 17):
but then I'm not just an FS simmer anymore am I !

Nope, not any more.  Wink Could a quality FS pilot fly and land an airliner? Probably... but it would be neither pretty nor smooth. Odds are most, if not all, the pax would be able to walk away. The plane? Well that's another matter entirely.

OTOH, don't let me anywhere near a PC based FS program. Tried that many moons ago only to learn there is no PC based program that can semi-accurately recreate the "feel" (physical, visual and sound) of any airplane... there still are none today. They're good for the basic procedures and IFR practice, but not good for VMC/VFR. Multi-million dollar full-motion simulators, while much better, have the same limitations (just a lot closer to the real thing). Basic rule-of-thumb: the better a pilot is at "seat-of-the-pants" flying, the less success he'll find in simulations.



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineWoodreau From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1053 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6655 times:

Here's a mp3 of an air traffic controller who talked someone who had never flown this particular type plane down to a safe landing after the pilot was incapacitated... it's a Malibu, not a 737, the air traffic controller is a current CFI.

http://www.natca.org/assets/multimedia/02-Track-02.mp3

[Edited 2005-10-02 02:18:07]


Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
User currently offlineJetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2577 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6639 times:

Generally speaking, flying a full flight simulator is much easier than the corresponding PC flightsim, mainly because of the additional cues you have and generally higher quality flight models used. Of course on the typical public sim session wind is zero and turbulence set to minimal or off. Flying the aircraft, under the same calm conditions, is easier still. So in clear skies with zero wind a sim pilot might manage to land the real thing with an awful lot of luck. If I were ever in that position I'd set the autopilot up to land if at all possible.

However, once you've seen real sim sessions with pilots being put through the ringer on a VOR/DME approach in cloud with an engine failure and a flap asymmetry (for example) you appreciate just how hard it can become in the real world. You can "learn" to land a PC sim in those conditions, but it would not be the same as the real thing.

That being said, a lot of pilots and airlines use good quality PC flight sims to practice procedures with (no training as such allowed).



The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
User currently offlineBhill From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1023 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6618 times:

Sure, it CAN happen..and we are all promised the Second Coming. Pose the same question to "Surgery Simulators"...sorry, I'm not a pilot, and the reactions needed to respond correctly to all of the sensory input in REAL LIFE..wind..darkness..weather..mechanical failures, that only REAL LIFE experiances in that 30-40-300 ton aircraft can give will get it on the ground in one piece. I'm 41 years of age and before the Gulf Wars, I felt ALOT more comfortable in an airliner..yep it is probably irrational...when there was an older..possibly a Viet Nam era pilot in command...cause he/she probably had to deal with the "curveballs" that combat flying poses to the pilot....yep, like I said, it's not rational, but I have a hunch that all a FS "pilot" would do is make a BIG crater in the ground...

Cheers



Carpe Pices
User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6965 posts, RR: 76
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6578 times:

DME approach in cloud with an engine failure and a flap asymmetry (for example) you appreciate just how hard it can become in the real world.

That's what I had... Single engine, HYD A & B out... rudder and aileron trimmer stuck aswell...  Smile

Despite being able to do it, it would be different if my life depends on it!

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineAdamWright From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6557 times:

All you're doing on Flight Simulator is figuring out in what sequence to click buttons. No real flying there.

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6504 times:

Depending on the how advanced & accurate the FS is.
T/O & manuvering would be ok,but Landng would require a lot of practice.
Why the question  Smile
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
25 Jamesbuk : my theory is anyone can fly a plane, the real challenge is not crashing
26 Post contains images D5DBY : after reading some comments.....I think it would be very hard for a fs pilot to make a safe flight....like someone said...you just move a pixel... whe
27 PhilSquares : I have had my PPL since I was 16. I have over 22,000 hours of jet time, with several years as an instructor/evaluator (civilian and military). To answ
28 Post contains images Charliecossie : Hi Phil, In many cases pilots *do* pay the airlines to work there! Oh, and I once flew the BA 742 sim from LHR to LGW and back to LHR with no problems
29 Euclid : The show is called Flying Heavy Metal and is presented by Bruce Dickinson, lead singer of Iron maiden. The guy flying the 747 was sitting in the righ
30 Post contains images Starlionblue : For the record, this is Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden. A true renaissance man, he also represented England at the Olympics in the noble sport of fen
31 B744F : Ummm, no How often in FS do you have that if you use real weather? Personally I have noticed how threatened pilots are by the thought that anyone wit
32 PhilSquares : Are you for real? Other than the preflight and post flight checklists, there is no repetition. Being a pilot isn't about repetition, that builds the
33 B744F : It is repetition. Repetition in the simulator training for all the failures as well as the normal procedures. Everything else is learned from the expe
34 CosmicCruiser : The fact that you could actually write this for all to see proves you haven't a clue. Once you get the F-18 add on you should be ready for the Blue A
35 B744F : I'm talking about taking the controls, and landing the airplane. You tune in the high altitude VOR by the airport, put the ILS freq in the 2nd nav rad
36 Pilotpip : Yeah, in a controlled environment where the wind is always the same, the conditions are always the same, and the "pilot" has a pause button. No two l
37 PhilSquares : You're completely wrong. I prefer to watch people during a line check than in a base check. You get a much better indication of their performance. Ho
38 B744F : It is amazing how angry pilots get at the thought that what they do, anybody with proper training can do.
39 IAHFLYR : Great queston, but with training on how to use the autopilot and have a high level of comfort with it, FMC operation and same level of comfort and the
40 Pilotpip : Proper training isn't sitting at your computer with a joystick and a few programs that make you think you can fly a plane. And you're right, almost an
41 CosmicCruiser : [quote=B744F,reply=35] I am talking about taking an airplane from altitude and landing. Yea, but that isn't being an airline capt. I'm sorry but you h
42 PhilSquares : Let's take this stupid thread one step further. Why not develop a medical program that would enable anyone from off the street to do brain surgery. W
43 2H4 : B744F, you're forgetting one major detail. The act of flying (and landing) a commercial transport-category aircraft has as much to do with proper jud
44 Post contains images Mandala499 : One weakness of FS is the way they do the calculations. You can't get ground effect/near ground turbulence etc etc...! At least AS2 is better in the m
45 B744F : You really think too highly of your profession to make such a ridiculous comparison Yes it can. But to actually do it? There is a chance. But to act
46 PhilSquares : No, my comparison was to illustrate how stupid and far fetched your statement was. Pick any profession and you can make the same comparison. What abo
47 Mandala499 : B744F, Sorry, a semi-truck driver is a driver of a large ROAD VEHICLE. If you drive a car, you drive a ROAD VEHICLE. Now, a jet is a large AIRBORNE VE
48 Post contains images WILCO737 : Hello guys, now I want to reply as well. I read the whole thread and the emotions are high in here. But we all should be calm and think about it. Lets
49 Jush : I tell you what. A FS pilot MIGHT t/o an AC which he has learned to fly in a good payware addon IF a proper pilot assists and does all the proper star
50 2H4 : NO, it can't. How many FS pilots have you brought into a level D sim? Hmmm? Over the years, i've taken about two dozen people into various full-motio
51 Post contains links Starlionblue : While I used to do a lot of FS, and I do think add-ons add a lot of realism, I disagree with B744F, and here is why: Exactly. Hypothetical: Student x
52 BeechNut : To all you flight simmers who think you could do it for real: throw in turbulence, clouds, conflicting g-forces that make you think you're turning wh
53 Post contains links Starlionblue : While I agree that FS pilots are in no way ready for the real thing, I would point out that all those things can be simulated on a PC Sim. Here's a q
54 Mandala499 : I think the problem here is that: 1. Real pilots are not aware how developed MS FS is. 2. Sim pilots are not aware of the differences between sim flyi
55 Starlionblue : It's funny how I was going to add comments just like these as I opened the thread, and here they are! Exactly my thoughts. Both sides of the argument
56 Peterpuck : I could be a lawyer, I've watched Law and Order enough. I could be a doctor, I can google any disease. I've driven go carts, so F1 isn't a stretch for
57 BeechNut : No they can't. A PC sim is not full-motion (at least nothing that the average PC simmer is talking about here). Yes you can simulate turbulence, gust
58 Mandala499 : BeechNut, YOU CAN... it's a matter of how much money U're going to put into the Sim... (Use FSUIPC, a few extra processors, and some actuators/hydraul
59 BeechNut : Non-motion simulators in a proper training context have their uses. But they do not replace bouncing around in a real aircraft. If they did, you'd be
60 Starlionblue : Point taken. But as has been said FS is not useless as a training tool. It's not the tool itself, it's how it is used that counts. Of course if you h
61 VSIVARIES : I 'play' on MS FS2002. I am also doing PPL in a P28A. There is a world of difference, even in light aircraft. The main one is if you make a mistake (o
62 PeterPuck : FS is definitely a good way to practice ( or learn ) IFR procedures. Like Stallionblue said it's a good training tool. Nothing is like real world expe
63 B744F : I don't doubt the difference. But to claim that "nobody" can get in an airplane and land in an emergency who has spent maybe hundreds of hours playing
64 VSIVARIES : B744F, can I ask you a question? Have you ever flown a real aircraft (any type) either on your own or under instruction? (Honest question = Honest ans
65 PhilSquares : Perhaps you'd like to share your background and experience that makes you qualified to even answer the question. From the profile you have, it's some
66 ContnlEliteCMH : I have *always* found driving a real car to be much easier than driving in a video game. But I've always found flying for real to be easier than a fl
67 CosmicCruiser : I think you hit the nail on the head!! Thank you.
68 Post contains images Mandala499 : Beechnut, Exactly what we're both saying is... FS and Non-motion simulators in a proper training context have their uses... which is navigation and pr
69 Jush : That's exactly what to do. And i tell you what. Everyone being brave enough to go into a cockpit with two dead pilots even if he/she is doing the tou
70 BeechNut : Are you kidding? I'm a 500 hour private pilot, I own two aircraft (180 hp Beech Sundowner, 115 hp Beech Skipper). So I've proven I can fly a real air
71 Jush : Sorry Mike, i didn't point out clear enough what i meant. I still regard to Sim-pilots with no real hours whatsoever. Only flown with MS FS or so. Re
72 Post contains images LAPA_SAAB340 : Hi BeechNut (& PhilSquares) Nice post bringing to attention the fact that the response to the controls of a heavy jet aircraft alone is nothing like i
73 Post contains images Aogdesk : Are we talking 'shoot an ILS in a B757 and grease a landing'? or are we talking 'set a 757 sim up on a 5 mile approach (VFR) and the airplane will nee
74 DCrawley : Not even close.. have you no idea how different it is in the cockpit? How much faster it seems the first time you shoot an approach in the cockpit? B
75 Jush : No they can't that's why my brother-in-law (who is Flightsim instructor for AB) had to even send a few people back home even though they had an ATPL
76 BeechNut : There's one of those old, wise sayings in aviation: never let the aircraft go to a place unless your brain arrived there 5 minutes before the aircraf
77 Post contains images AirworldA320 : Its a GAME made for your entertainment, not a training tool for the next budding airline pilot.
78 Post contains images Miamiair : I could even land the Space Shuttle. I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Give me a break. Not even close. More like night and day. My son tin
79 SuperD : Interesting discussion. Could someone that only plays a computer game get an aircraft from the sky to a runway? I believe so, with heavy coaching over
80 SlamClick : Good point, and, as someone above commented . . . and . . . A few years ago I went along on a no-jeopardy sim session with a guy with nearly twenty t
81 Mirrodie : well, im just a doctor and once in a while I use FS2004 I've used the Boeing Alteon simulators a few times: the MD-11 and B 717 numerously. The contro
82 MDorBust : Sure it can be done. Here's the simple easy steps. 1) Go download real world traffic programs for your FS. Make sure you have Passenger, Cargo, GA and
83 SlamClick : You forgot one step. 9. Strap on the "realism suit." Not familiar? Well, to make FS more like a "real" airplane this covers almost your entire body.
84 Post contains images MDorBust : oops, I forgot #10 too. 10) If simulateing an aircraft with extensive cockpit glazeing, buy a heatlamp and set it up next to your head. Addendum A: I
85 SuperD : 11) Pour a jug of water on the control yoke and seatback to simulate 10% of the amount you'd actually be sweating. 12) Before you sit down at the comp
86 Mandala499 : HEY GUESS WHAT???? I've had #3, #6, #7, #8 (though rusty at this one), #10 (we were doing a "how to make the pains more real" LOL), #11 had the slippe
87 Gerry : B744F Quite right. Commercial flying in jet aircraft is not the province of gods otherwise there would not be commercial aviation.
88 SuperD : It is definitely not the province of the gods. It is, however, the province of the well-trained.
89 B744F : The well trained and experienced to do it day in and day out. We are talking about doing it ONCE. So the bottom line is, YES it can be done. All this
90 PhilSquares : 744F I have asked you to elaborate on your qualifications. Haven't done that yet, but you don't have a clue! In fact, you showed just what you think
91 Mandala499 : B744F, How about a "yes, a likely write off with injuries and perhaps a few deaths" ? Coz, while Phil goes about having been an instructor pilot in th
92 Gerry : Phil Squares You have 21,000 hours on heavies according to your profile. Why did you not mention that? You never know, B744F may surprise you as well.
93 PhilSquares : I have it in my profile, he doesn't. I have asked him twice. Nothing else I can do.
94 SuperD : If given a 100 chances to land a jet, a random person off the street that has been heavily coached over the radio will probably be able to pull off o
95 SlamClick : No, he won't. B744F is not a pilot. We can tell that from his responses in this and other threads. Many of us no longer respond to his posts because
96 Mandala499 : 76-85 age range? LOL If true and he's a pilot, he should have stopped line flying >20yrs ago, when flight simulators on desktops were very primitive..
97 Post contains images DCrawley : Quoting from the original question: "can a well-trained flight sim pilot make a regular flight with like a Boeing AC?" I personally do not think so,
98 ContnlEliteCMH : He will steadfastly refuse to tell you anything about himself. Then, when you respond to him based on what he writes, he says, "You don't know anythi
99 Mandala499 : I'm not stupid enough to believe he's 76-85... Used to say it was 20s? Hmm... 7-6 = 1 8-5 = 3... Given his lines of reasoning, like I just described a
100 Gerry : Good grief some of you guys get uptight. Do you get this uptight in the cockpit?
101 ZKSUJ : No, not a pure FS person anyway. What I mean is that if someone is an FS buff, and has some or limited real time experience, then maybe. But very very
102 Post contains images ACDC8 : Well, let me add my 2 cents into this one. As an avid FS simmer I can assure you that I am very confident that I can at least land a twin-engine turbo
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