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Things You Don't Want To Get Too Good At  
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4423 times:

As a followon to the new A&P thread, I've been thinking a bit.....

It's a good thing to develop a specialty-mine was systems and engine overhaul/repair, testing and evaluation....some guys did sheet metal, other guys were pitot/static specialists or wheel/brake/landing gear guys. There were guys who did rough and ready structure work for ferry flights, they were on the road a lot.

there are things that a fella doesn't want to get too good at.

I'd have to say that if there's one thing above all others that a person doesn't want to get too good at it would be anything to do with fixing fuel leaks or going inside fuel tanks. One reason is that if you get too good at it you'll never be rid of the task. You'll get stuck with it over and over and over...and you'll never get the sealer out of your hair and off your skin...

Back when I worked for Atlantic Aviation in LGB there was a CL600 & CL601 service bulletin. It seemed that when a Challenger was parked on the ramp, if not exactly level, pressure refueling would cause the fuel to gush out the wing vents. If the refueling truck moron wasn't paying attention several hundred gallons of jet fuel could and did get spilled on the ramp.

The fix consisted of opening up the tank doors, pulling out a bunch of plumbing, installing a different bunch of plumbing, mounting some level valves and drilling a stringer for a couple huckbolts...this had to be done lying on one's back and using a mirror...I was much skinnier then, and I got nominated to go in a wet tank, no respirator.....damn fool that I was, I went....the procedure was arms overhead, upper body in, arms down, bring the rest in, lay down, scooch forward, roll over...I had my first last and only panic attack in there....with my ass in a puddle of fuel.

I had gotten too damned good at working in fuel tanks and fixing fuel leaks, even though the Falcon 20 tank and plank inspection I was on one time was a lot of late night fun.

When I realized that as the junior facility we'd likely get stuck with most of the service bulletins on existing aircraft, I put in my application at Douglas the next week and got hired. The skin on my ass came off due to contact with jet fuel, and the stink didn't leave for a long time.

Although I later became respirator certified, I only had to go into a fuel bag one time after that, and it was dry.

So what do you NOT want to do?

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4408 times:

In the Navy my MOS was jet engines and fuel systems. Enjoyed the engine part, not so crazy about the fuel system part. That's why when they start looking for people to become tank certified I run for cover. Been there done that. Sure you get a bunch of over time but IMO it's not worth it.

[Edited 2005-10-04 01:49:12]

User currently offlineAogdesk From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 935 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4304 times:

I always look for the newbie junior guy when we have to do that one lav task card: You know the one......where you have to reach way down inside the toilet bowl without a glove to hit the 'reset' switch....... Smile

User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4297 times:

i'd rather stay away from the paperwork part...

forever an operations guy!!



"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4277 times:

Kind of along the same lines, but not quite.

Last summer I checked out a guy in a 172 so he could rent it at a flight school. We got to the typical "simulated engine failure and forced landing" part and he performed it beautifully and I actually learned some stuff from him. Asked him how he knew so much about it and he remarked "ah, I've gotten pretty good at it by now, I've done it about 8 times in real life so far over the years."

Thats not something I'd really want to get good at through experience...


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31679 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4168 times:

Quoting Dougloid (Thread starter):
So what do you NOT want to do



Quoting Aogdesk (Reply 2):
always look for the newbie junior guy when we have to do that one lav task card

Def Water waste  Smile
Would prefer Chapter 21 & 32 though.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineG4doc2004 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4164 times:

Anything to do with interior R&R's.....it never ceases to amaze me that no matter how careful you are marking interior panels as you remove them, they NEVER go back in without a fight......seats suck too.


"Failure to prepare is preparing to fail"--Benjamin Franklin
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4151 times:

Quoting G4doc2004 (Reply 6):
Anything to do with interior R&R's.....it never ceases to amaze me that no matter how careful you are marking interior panels as you remove them, they NEVER go back in without a fight......seats suck too.

Another thing is pulling out lavatories and having to fix all the corrosion from dick splatters and that nasty blue stuff.....did that one time on a HS125....not very nice...the carpet pad was permeated with the blue stiff from a leaking hose.

When I worked at DAC there was a guy who decided he was going to make my life miserable for some reason....I obtained a quart of the blue lavatory stuff, fitted the plastic bottle with an applicator tip from a tube of sealer, and waited my time. He had a rollaway that sat out on the ramp...one night when he was up on a functional test I took the quart of blue stuff and forced the applicator tip through a small hole in his rollaway...I gave his tools the entire quart....

Someone mentioned something about skydrol.........ever get it in your eye? Jeezis Christ....a little dab'll do ya.


User currently offlineAmtrosie From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 274 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4072 times:

Wow where to begin? First, I am a motor guy. Love it, and I can even tolerate the fuel there (only). Tank diving has never been very "fun" for me, but TOPS on my list is lubing. I CAN NOT STAND THAT JOB!!!!! I am all too aware of its importance, but that doesn't change how I feel. To do it right, and I do, You will come out of the job covered head-to-toe with grease. It just drives me nuts!!! I don't mind getting dirty, mind you, it has to do with the grease, the required fight with the grease equipment-guns, clogged grease points---- the whole enchilada!

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 7):
Someone mentioned something about skydrol.........ever get it in your eye? Jeezis Christ....a little dab'll do ya.

There have been entire threads devoted to this subject.
The stories are as varied as the individuals relating them.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14011 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3997 times:

During my time with an Irish heavy MX company, we had a series of structural mods in section 18 of the A320 and A321. In preperation for this mod the sh*t tank and all the attached pipes and hoses had to be removed. Our fuselage team consisted of about 25 people, but only 5 of us had to do the sh*t tank work, "because wealready knew how to do it in short time" and it would take new people longer. After one year we rebelled and refused to do this job, stating that there were plenty of people in our team, who have never done it. BTW, I hate cabin work as well, I try to do my job as good as possible, but I hate the disgusting dirt passengers and pilots leave in the cabin and cockpit, even behind sidewall panels. I also hate aerodynamical sealing.

Jan


User currently offlineTimT From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3971 times:

ANYTHING from ATA 29 Hydraulics. Don't mind the 5606 systems, but Skydrol is still nasty stuff. Anyway, I'm a sparkchaser at heart. About the only ATA 29 stuff I get is indication/pressure problems. I'd rather do blue juice than Skydrol.

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31679 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3889 times:

Quoting TimT (Reply 10):
I'd rather do blue juice than Skydrol.

Agreed.
 Smile
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineWhiskeyflyer From Ireland, joined May 2002, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3871 times:

anything to do with Quality department (unless you are nearing retirement)

User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3868 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 9):
During my time with an Irish heavy MX company, we had a series of structural mods in section 18 of the A320 and A321. In preperation for this mod the sh*t tank and all the attached pipes and hoses had to be removed. Our fuselage team consisted of about 25 people, but only 5 of us had to do the sh*t tank work, "because wealready knew how to do it in short time" and it would take new people longer.

I went down that road brother...the last year I worked for Garrett (1983)...we had a truck mounted dynamometer for TPE331 testing....people'd send their engines in for test, sometimes Garrett would send us an engine to run to validate the metrics we came up with, sometimes out of our shop....

The day guy would run the engines and plot the data points. Every night for eight months I was either putting an engine on the test stand or taking it off the test stand, with no relief in sight....I ended up having to quit just so I could go somewhere and fix something. In a year I was running an engine repair facility.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14011 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3819 times:

At a certain Irish airline at their home base in DUB, they have a team that is just changing wheels and brakes. I would hand in my resignation after one month if I got stuck in such a team.
But it is typical in our profession, if you are good at your job you�ll get punished, e.g. by always being the person being called on his off days to work overtime to fix some AOG. The slackers are usually the people who get theirt off days and never get called in.

Jan


User currently offlineMidnights From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3770 times:

Quoting TimT (Reply 10):
I'd rather do blue juice than Skydrol.

I dunno about that....


User currently offlineTroubleshooter From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 423 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3741 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 14):
The slackers are usually the people who get theirt off days and never get called in.

"DUMMHEIT SCHAFFT FREIZEIT". Sorry don´t know the english term.

But you are right. If you have some extra qualifications, you´ll have extra work. That´s the way it goes...



This job sucks!!! I love this job!!!
User currently offlineSkydrolBoy From Canada, joined Sep 2003, 341 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3728 times:

I dont mind going in to the Boeings to fix fuel leaks, but what I really hate is fixing fuel leaks on Convair 580's. Those damn things always leak, and it take about 3-4 days of picking PRC, to get through the 40 years of patch jobs to get back to bare metal so you can reseal the tank properly.

User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3709 times:

Quoting SkydrolBoy (Reply 17):
I dont mind going in to the Boeings to fix fuel leaks, but what I really hate is fixing fuel leaks on Convair 580's. Those damn things always leak, and it take about 3-4 days of picking PRC, to get through the 40 years of patch jobs to get back to bare metal so you can reseal the tank properly.

Your employer has quite a trade in 580s ....


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31679 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3662 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 14):
The slackers are usually the people who get theirt off days and never get called in.

Amazing how similiar Aviation Mx is the World over  Smile
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineSkydrolBoy From Canada, joined Sep 2003, 341 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3655 times:

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 18):
Your employer has quite a trade in 580s ....

Yes, yes the do. Probally because the own the TC for Convair now...LOL...Right now they are converting some CV-580s to CV-580A Air Tankers. They are a regular 580 but converted for air tanker use with the upgraded 501-D22 engines and an EFIS cockpit.


User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days ago) and read 3598 times:

Quoting SkydrolBoy (Reply 20):
Yes, yes the do. Probally because the own the TC for Convair now...LOL...Right now they are converting some CV-580s to CV-580A Air Tankers. They are a regular 580 but converted for air tanker use with the upgraded 501-D22 engines and an EFIS cockpit.

I used to work with a guy named Frank Haigh who was an electrical draftsman at Pacific Aermotive back in the day when they did the work that resulted in the 580 reengineing program....they figured that they'd do maybe 10 or 12 of them.....little did they know.

You just gotta love the power to weight ratio....levitation is not out of the question....gotta watch for bogus hardware in the empennage....KFC had a go-round with that on a Norwegian bird that went down in the Skaggerak...

As a point of information related to the talk about sealing, the design life of 1422 is about 12 years....that's all the manufacturer says it's good for....


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3569 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 14):
The slackers are usually the people who get theirt off days and never get called in.

Know that feeling all to well. If your run/taxi qualed on multiple types be ready for the crew chief to come looking for you to move airplanes. Usually it happens right after you get done with a job. Now I don't mind moving planes, it's part of the job. However it gets a bit annoying when your walking out to a plane and you see your co-worker who is either qualed on only one aircraft or none at all taking it easy.


User currently offlineSkydrolBoy From Canada, joined Sep 2003, 341 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3482 times:

Dougloid,

You seem to know alot about the CV-580, have you got lots of experience working on them???

Skydrolboy


User currently offlineKevinl1011 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2964 posts, RR: 48
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3458 times:

Quoting Troubleshooter (Reply 16):
"DUMMHEIT SCHAFFT FREIZEIT".

Translation: "Stupid Jerkoff".



474218, Carl, You will be missed.
25 HAWK21M : Are you serious. Why would anyone want this Aircraft. regds MEL
26 Kevinl1011 : Exactly. What about hours / cycles?
27 Loggy : Do they use that 1422 sealant on civil aircraft fuel tanks ?, if so, what's the time before reseal ?.
28 Fokker Lover : MEL 1422 is a sealer, as in PR1422-B2. Best fuel tank sealer out there. Though, it's not compatible with Boeing fuel tank primer. They use mostly PR1
29 Dl757md : I can't speak for everywhere but at Delta we use PS890-B2 for most fuel tank repairs and PR2001-B1/2 for quick cure. I'm not aware of any life limita
30 Post contains images HAWK21M : Have you experienced any problems related to this type of work [Fuel tank] over a period of time,health wise. regds MEL
31 Amtrosie : Hoy Cow!!! Even with O/T, Thats bringing home the bacon!
32 Dl757md : I'm not sure what long term effect it's having on me. Short term I loose some feeling and strength in my hands for a few days after I've been in the
33 Post contains images MX757 : Very typical, no matter where you go. And it gets worse when you work in a union shop. I made the mistake of getting good at trouble shooting and rep
34 HAWK21M : What do you do about the Odour & do you have skin peeling. This problem of Strength in hands being affected.Is it Muscle related or just Fuel soak re
35 Dl757md : I haven't found anything for the odor. Luckily I don't have a problem with my skin peeling although I know this happens to some people. I think it is
36 HAWK21M : Any particular clothing used for above work. regds MEL
37 Dougloid : Could be the early onset of arthritis....mechanicking uses a lot of strength in the hands....after a hard day I'd get home, fall asleep in a chair on
38 Dl757md : We use cotton tank jumpsuits. The main benefit of them is that they cover any metal on your clothing and reduce the potential for sparks. They don't
39 Dougloid : There's no doubt about it....full time mechanicking is a younger man's game...I'm 57 and I can still swing a wrench (although I do nothing more serio
40 Dl757md : Hey Dougloid I was looking at your profile and noticed your occupation of attorney/A&P mechanic. That's an unusual combo. Care to share with us how th
41 Dougloid : My Life Story.... Back in 82 I was working at Garrett and I was tearing down a TSE331 that came from a medevac chopper that crashed out by Corona...t
42 Kaddyuk : Replacing the Linoleum that goes down in the galleys is the worst, forget water/waste that stuff's only been their for a flight or three MAX... when y
43 Dl757md : Been there, done that. The linoleum in the lower galley on an L-1011 was a magnitude worse than any I've pulled up on any other plane. I guess they d
44 Post contains images HAWK21M : I guess that would be Priority considering the long term implications. Thats an Unusual Occupation & can be a very profitable one too Tell me about y
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