AR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 4846 posts, RR: 27 Posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 11171 times:
If anyone is familiar with this accident, you'll understand why I'm so curious about it. I haven't been able to find more info. on it, except than the official one. The plane landed in the shoulder in the wrong runway, without tower clearance, after at what was at best a shoddy approach, collided with a big, heavy truck and we know the rest. The sites we usually use for research won't say more than the above.
No SOP's followed by cockpit crew members ? no tower clearance given ? no missed aproach ? a landing in a closed runway with half of the gear on the grass and the rest on the asphalt ? etc. You get my drift. It is a somewhat perplexing accident.
I find such negligence or mistakes hard to believe. But I am definitely not thinking or hoping to find a "conspiracy theory".
So, if anybody knows anything about what is to me one weird hull loss, I'd appreciate your info.
Please be aware, I have already been to the usual sites we a.netters use and I also posted a similar post last year, but did not get anything. I believe I placed it in the wrong forum.
FLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 11227 times:
My dad has mentioned to me several times this accident. Something down the lines that one of the runways (sounded like 5R by his description) was closed for maintenance, but ATC told the flight that it was cleared to land on the closed runway (because he was probably used to saying 5R so many times before, as 5L is usually used for take offs), visibility was very smoggy (way thicker in the 1970s than today from what I've heard) so probably by the time they finally noticed, it was too late and they plowed through the workers and part of the terminal IIRC.
Maybe the pilots were staring at the instruments too much, maybe there wasn't a big lighted X in the rwy, who knows.
AR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 4846 posts, RR: 27 Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 11224 times:
FLY2HMO
It was DC-10-10, N903WA C/N; 46929/107
What your father is saying, used to circulate for a while, but the CVR didn't support it. The plane just went all the way through to the closed runway.
AR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 4846 posts, RR: 27 Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 11125 times:
HAWK21M
As always, MEL, thanks very much for the help. However it's these links Maybe pilot errors like that do occur more than often than we think.
In any case in the link you provided there is a link to a material I was trying to get my hands on. But after seeing the advertisement for it and all the info. on the site, I'm going to pass on that book. It seems a fraud
Well MEL, thanks again for your invaluable help, if you find anything else, I'd appreciate it.
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71 Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 11122 times:
Quoting AR385 (Reply 5): Maybe pilot errors like that do occur more than often than we think.
Well, that was one crash 26 years ago. You are going to have to offer another in order to get a time frame from which we can define "often."
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
AR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 4846 posts, RR: 27 Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 11097 times:
SlamClick
I'm sorry you took offense. What I meant is that maybe cockpit mistakes as the ones that supposedly brought down 2605 happen more often than we know, but do not end up in tragedies, like the above.
That is precisely why I posted this. I simply find hard to undertand how such a professional crew made such mistakes, as alleged in the final reports.
I suggest you read about 2605 a bit so we can enrich this discussion
Dc863 From Denmark, joined Jun 1999, 1554 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 11078 times:
Crew fatigue is believe to have been a contributing cause. This flight departed late in the evening and who knows how long the crew had been on duty or how much rest they had gotten, apparently not much.
DCrawley From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 371 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 11077 times:
A few points I'd like to make:
- No one was allowed to listen to the tower tapes.
- ALPA investigative team was kicked out of the country when they went down to investigate.
Now I'm not saying I know what happened, but it was all kind of fishy. My father is a retired Western pilot and one of his classmates was the S/O and he'd flown with Captain Charlie Gilbert many times. He knew the F/O but not too well. He said that all of them were ex-military and extremely competent pilots. Just some food for thought..
-d
"Weather at our destination is 50 degrees with some broken clouds, but they'll try to have them fixed before we arrive."
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 11067 times:
Quoting AR385 (Reply 5): In any case in the link you provided there is a link to a material I was trying to get my hands on
Glad to help
Quoting AR385 (Reply 7): That is precisely why I posted this. I simply find hard to undertand how such a professional crew made such mistakes, as alleged in the final reports
Fatique can create errors by Competant Individuals not only in Flying but also in Mx.
regds
MEL
- No one was allowed to listen to the tower tapes.
- ALPA investigative team was kicked out of the country when they went down to investigate.
I'm not surprised about the ALPA team being told to leave, but I am on your first assertion. Which tapes have we been listening to on the final transcripts? Are these doctored tapes? Do you have sources that claim something of the sort?
I'll really appreciate if you can expand on that.
Somebody has also told me that Capt. Gilbert and his F/O were not on speaking terms and had actually been having quite open, aggressive discussions, on the flightdeck, as witnessed by a flight attendant. Do you know if this is true? Maybe your father knows more about this.
DCrawley From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 371 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11033 times:
Quoting AR385 (Reply 11): I'll really appreciate if you can expand on that..Maybe your father knows more about this.
I'll give him a ring today and see what he says about it. I'll try and update my information later tonight!
-d
"Weather at our destination is 50 degrees with some broken clouds, but they'll try to have them fixed before we arrive."
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