Flaps30 From United States, joined May 2009, 67 posts, RR: 0 Posted (9 years 5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1096 times:
I wonder if any airline pilots who routinely fly out of SNA (Orange County,CA) could shed some light on the engine power settings used during the takeoff and departure procedure from SNA. Let's use the following criteria to make it a little easier to compute power settings:
Take off from runway 19R
aircraft is 75% full, going to either SFO, OAK, RNO, or SJC (i.e., not too far)
OAT is 80 degrees F
Wind is 10 kts from 183 degrees
What power setting do you use when cleared for takeoff?
What is the initial rate of climb between rotation and the power reduction point?
What is the power setting (fairly specific, please) at the power reduction point, based on the above criteria (weight, temperature, etc.).
At the power reduction point, how much climb performance do you lose due to the power reduction? Can the aircraft climb at all during its journey over Newport Beach?
How long/ how far do you fly the aircraft before restoring power?
Do you feel there's anything "dangerous" about this departure procedure?
Regardless of how quietly you try to fly the aircraft just after departure, will there always be a few people on the ground who will complain about the noise?
I know that the power settings will be different depending on the type of aircraft but that's fine- that's what I'm looking for. Thanks for your time.
AAR90 From United States, joined Jan 2000, 3001 posts, RR: 50 Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 895 times:
MD90 aircraft with 5 empty seats --sorry, but I left my manuals at the airport so I'm gonna have to do this from memory of the flight (6 hours ago).
>What power setting do you use when cleared for takeoff?
Maximum power ~1.51 - 1.65 EPR. About 96%-97% N1 RPM.
>What is the initial rate of climb between rotation and the power
>reduction point?
Greater than 6,000 feet per minute (guage doesn't go higher).
>What is the power setting (fairly specific, please) at the power
>reduction point, based on the above criteria (weight, temperature, etc.).
1.25 EPR exactly.
>At the power reduction point, how much climb performance do you lose
>due to the power reduction?
About 2/3 reduction from 6,000+ fpm down to around 2,000 fpm.
>Can the aircraft climb at all during its journey over Newport Beach?
Easily. Reaching 3,000 feet above ground we trade climb rate for speed increase so we can raise the flaps/slats.
>How long/ how far do you fly the aircraft before restoring power?
5 miles south of the runway (well past the coastline).
>Do you feel there's anything "dangerous" about this departure procedure?
Nope. If _anything_ irregular happens, pilots are authorized to deviate from the noise reduction procedures. You follow this procedure _only_ if _everything_ is working properly.
>Regardless of how quietly you try to fly the aircraft just after
>departure, will there always be a few people on the ground
>who will complain about the noise?
Probably, but I'll never know about it.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
BigGiraffe From United States, joined Jan 2000, 257 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 2 days ago) and read 872 times:
6000 feet per minute climb?? Wait a minute, now, are we talking a commercial jet or an F-18 fighter? I remember you said the MD-90 was powerful, but didn't realize just how much so! I'm impressed.
So do I understand correctly that you don't raise flaps until 3000 feet up?
Ual1636 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 861 times:
I was watching a show on the Discovery Channel once and they said most airliners don't raise flaps until 3000 ft. and 220 kts. I'm sure all the airliners vary, but I think this around what most do.
AAR90 From United States, joined Jan 2000, 3001 posts, RR: 50 Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 862 times:
AA standard procedure is to maintain initial climb speed/configuration until 1000 feet above field elevation, then accelerate, raise flaps/slats and setting climb power. SNA special noise abatement procedure maintains takeoff flaps/slats configuration while reducing power considerably below normal climb power until reaching 3000 feet above field elevation, then accelerate and raise flaps/slats while maintaining that reduced power setting until 5 miles from runway.
I have never heard of "most airliners" and the "3000 ft. and 220 kts" going together. Some different numbers based upon different variables and usually associated with Europe airports.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
Flaps30 From United States, joined May 2009, 67 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 841 times:
Hello AAR90. Thank you for your reply regarding the SNA power settings! Never having experienced the Orange County E-Ticket ride, I had absolutely no idea the aircraft (or at least the MD90) could still climb at 2,000 ft/min even at reduced power (!). I suppose the 757 can do somthing similar, huh?
I am about to post another question in this forum that I will call something like
"cruising at FL410 in Calif." or something similiar.
DFW-JETS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 12 hours ago) and read 815 times:
I took-off in a AA 757 from SNA on this past sunday, you really dont notice anything diffrent other than hearing the power comming back a little bit. I didnt notice that sinking feeling everybody talks about.
However Im one of the very few that has landed and taken-off at SNA in a 727-200, Im not sure if many people were aware that 727-200s were a everyday sight at SNA during 1978-1979. Can anybody guess what airline I was on....
DFW-JETS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 11 hours ago) and read 822 times:
It was Hughes Airwest, they flew their 727-2M7s 2-3 times a day between SNA PHX and LAS. Air West and Air California were the only two airlines flying jets into SNA at the time, and they were always full. RW wanted to fly the 727s into SNA for a long time but was always turned down. The authorities at hand agreed to let them fly the 727s on a temporary and expermental basis for a brief time, I think maybe 6 months or less. Noise was a major complaint even way back then, and the short runway was also a concern, and I think the flights were weight restricted, but still carried more people than their DC-9-30s which were always full. I remember some of the trip, mostly the noise level was high, and the take-off angle isnt as steep as a MD-80 or a 757. I do remember the breaking action on landing was quite abrupt. I was about 12-13 years old, and I wish I could remember a lot more.
Flaps30 From United States, joined May 2009, 67 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 774 times:
Dude! Thanks for the SNA power settings from one of your recent flights! I didn't know you could take off with "only" 92% N1 power, but, with only a 1/2 load of people, I guess you could.
In the take off configuration, what is the stall speed? (Based on the above flight.) I'm guessing somewhere around 110-115 kts. Am I way off?
AAR90 From United States, joined Jan 2000, 3001 posts, RR: 50 Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 770 times:
>...with "only" 92% N1 power
92% N1 means at the prescribed 1.50 Engine Pressure Ratio, the N1 (first stage) compressor should be turning at 92% of its maximum rated speed. In fact, the left engine was turning just over 92% and the right engine slightly less than 92%.
>In the take off configuration, what is the stall speed?
>(Based on the above flight.) I'm guessing somewhere
>around 110-115 kts. Am I way off?
Good guess! 111 knots according to my book.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
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From United States, joined May 2009, 67 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
111 knots according to my book.
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