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Flapless Landings On Large Aircraft - When To Do?  
User currently offlineJulesmusician From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5647 times:

Is there any time when a large commercial aircraft might come in and land without flaps? (other than a failure!) - are there any specific circumstances which require it or has any pilot done it for a specific reason?

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5645 times:

Quoting Julesmusician (Thread starter):
Is there any time when a large commercial aircraft might come in and land without flaps? (other than a failure!)

There really is no operational reason to do a "no flap" landing. There is a substantial increase in Vref which translates to a tremendous increase in the runway required.


User currently offlineLimaFoxTango From Antigua and Barbuda, joined Jun 2004, 789 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5631 times:

I remember hearing sometime ago that a flapless landing is considered an emergency procedure ie mechanical failure or loss of hyraulic pressure etc. Unless for training purposes, an aircraft would not normally land without flaps.


You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5619 times:

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 2):
a flapless landing is considered an emergency procedure

It very well might be. In many cases the landing speed is near, or slightly above the tire speed limit. They are a very critical maneuver.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineMr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5597 times:

Have there been situations that flaps fail on one wing but operate normally on another? What is the procedure in this case? I suppose it's too dangerous to fly 'unevenly'?


Boeing747 万岁!
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5592 times:

Quoting Mr.BA (Reply 4):
Have there been situations that flaps fail on one wing but operate normally on another

Normally Asymettric protection will stop the Mvmt of the Flaps beyond a specific Difference.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1286 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5510 times:

I think that when you haver an engine failure lets say on a 777 and you loose one engine, that you then do a flapless landing. correct me if wrong
cheers leo  Smile



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5504 times:

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 6):
I think that when you haver an engine failure lets say on a 777 and you loose one engine, that you then do a flapless landing. correct me if wrong

Don't know anything about the triple-sev but I can tell you for absolute certain that you do not make a no-flap landing with an engine out on the 757/767 or A-330.

I cannot impress this upon you enough.

A no-flap landing is a very serious event. It is much more serious than an engine failure or fire.

You will have the crash trucks standing by. You will very probably blow all the maingear tires. You are about 70/30 going to have to evacuate the passenges down a slide, unless you flew around long enough for them to position a stair truck with the crash trucks.

In a big jet airliner you are never going to do a no-flap landing unless it is absolutely unavoidable.

edit: Will usually make a big difference if you can get the leading edge devices deployed.

[Edited 2005-10-30 19:51:38]


Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineRendezvous From New Zealand, joined May 2001, 516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5437 times:

With an engine failure on a twin I believe it is a reduced flap setting that is used (to allow better climb for missed approach etc).

User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5430 times:

Quoting Rendezvous (Reply 8):
reduced flap setting

Reduced yes. Massive difference between that and NO flaps. May easily be a fifty knot difference in touchdown speed.

Typical for an engine out might be landing at the highest takeoff flap setting. Like maybe flaps 15 for a 737.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
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