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Making Passengers Pay Attention To Safety Briefing  
User currently offlineJulesmusician From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2844 times:

All pilots and crew must be well aware that a substantial majority of passengers are still not really paying attention to safety briefings, especially now with video/DVD briefings quite often, rather than real humans.

Have any crew/pilots ever thought of techniques to make people sit up and listen? Personally when you are delayed on the ground for say 30 minutes and people are doing nothing it would be a good time to take an oxygen mask to individuals and get them to try putting it on, and just see how slow they would be, and then tell them they would be doing this as the aircraft is plummeting to the ground.  Smile

I know airlines don't want to scare people, but....

J

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3078 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2821 times:

To bad for them...Guess in an emergency they die.


You cannot make people do anything they do not want to.


BTW i have flown a lot and do not pay attention. Plus having a mtce background I can already open doors...So if i am reading a book during the demo leave me alone. No matter what you say you will not guilt me out of my book.

GS



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2796 times:

Its upto the Individual to listen.Most Pax are frequent travellers & know the Briefing so seem uninterested.Its very unlikely that a First timer would not pay attention to the briefings unless theres some distraction around.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineEI747SYDNEY From Ireland, joined Oct 2005, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2774 times:

I suppose all frequent flyers have much more of a familiarity with their aircraft compared to the once a year flyers who could be on a 747 but not even know.

Rob



''Live life on the edge, Live each and every day like it's your last, Hell you only live once''
User currently offlineA346Dude From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1282 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2756 times:

Every time I am on a plane I try very hard to listen to the briefing, but it is painfully slow and tedious and I generally lose interest after a minute or two. In Canada, the problem is compounded as you hear everything twice (once in English and once in French). Even worse is on aircraft like the CRJ where there are no screens and hence no video.

The problem with the safety demonstration is that it seems they want you to know how "advanced the safety features of this A320 aircraft" are, as much as they want you to be safe during an emergency.

In any case, I think that as long as people know the very basics, such as where the emergency exits are, they will be just as safe in an emergency as if they diligently listened to the entire demonstration.

A346Dude



You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
User currently offlineWoodreau From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1025 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2748 times:

Quoting Julesmusician (Thread starter):
Personally when you are delayed on the ground for say 30 minutes and people are doing nothing it would be a good time to take an oxygen mask to individuals and get them to try putting it on, and just see how slow they would be, and then tell them they would be doing this as the aircraft is plummeting to the ground.

Sounds like a good harassment lawsuit to me if you singled someone out for a "demonstration" test.



Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13968 posts, RR: 63
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2738 times:

Also think about the hygienic consequences.
Do you really want to stick your face into an oxygen mask, into which somebody else sneezed his snot?  yuck 

Jan


User currently offlineBri2k1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 988 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2729 times:

The good news is, you almost never need to use these procedures. The ones who are going to be more likely to keep their heads in an emergency anyway are the F/As, who are well-trained for such a situation. These multi-lingual "safety cards" with no words, or else words printed in a billion languages, aren't helpful at all. If you can't breathe, and there's an oxygen mask dangling in front of you, do you really need a written invitation to put it on? If the plane has crashed and the cabin is filling with smoke, do you need a personal escort to the big red "EXIT" sign?


Position and hold
User currently offlineTheSorcerer From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 1048 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2673 times:

Since June, everytime I've flown on BA the pilot or F/O comes on the intercom and says something along the lines of "... I appreciate that some of you are frequent flyers but please give the F/As the courstesy of paying attention to their safety demonstration".

I must admit I don't pay attention anymore, all I do is look for the nearest exit and how many rows I have to pass to get to it.

The Sorcerer



ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9523 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2668 times:

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 8):
I must admit I don't pay attention anymore, all I do is look for the nearest exit and how many rows I have to pass to get to it.

That's fair enough - it's pretty much what I do, along with a quick check on how the doors on that aircraft are opened.

What gets my goat are the ones who make a point of raising their voices over the briefing and raising their newspapers to obviously uncomfortable heights to let everyone know that they aren't listening. There's nothing wrong with already knowing the score but they don't need to be @rseholes about it. I don't doubt that a lot of the aviation bods here would have a good idea what to do but it's a pity the F/As can't pick one of those frequent fliers and ask "without looking, how would you get out if you couldn't see the door handles for smoke?".


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12403 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2668 times:
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Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 8):
I must admit I don't pay attention anymore, all I do is look for the nearest exit and how many rows I have to pass to get to it.

Ditto! Always know if the closest exit is in front or behind you, and how many seat rows you need to pass.

If I'm not in an aisle seat I also "evaluate" how difficult it will be to get over/past/through the person blocking my way



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6389 posts, RR: 54
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2657 times:

Get away with those "safety" demos. They are useless. And besides that 90% of the pax have heard them a hundred times over.

It would be a lot more efficient if airports for instance once every month invited new pax to come and watch a slide demonstration on a retired plane. And maybe try it themselves. Interested people should also be allowed to try to operate an exit door.

The life vest demo is only good for fooling pax into believing that their jet plane can ditch in the sea and they can survive. That was probably true if a 1935 clipper liner ditched in the Caribbean in calm weather in summer during daylight. But if a modern jet plane ditches in an ocean, and if you survive the crash, then you will freeze to death in 5 to 20 minutes depending on the season of the year. If a life vest should have any safety meaning, then all pax should wear a diver's suit when boarding!

One thing which could really improve safety in emergency situation, that would be to install loudspeakers of a the same quality as on a standard city bus or subway train. SAS MD-80s are the worst. Even when I hear a safety demo in my native language, Danish, then it is very hard to hear what is said because the sound is like a 1920 short wave receiver with a terrible background noise. And I only understand it because I know every word from hundreds of previous flights. In case of an emergency instruction spoken in Norwegian, Swedish or English, then I wouldn't understand one word on a SAS MD-80. Most planes are better than the MD-80, but most planes are generally awful in this respect.

But it might cost 20 dollars on each plane to exchange those loudspeakers with ordinary car stereo speakers from the cheapest car brand.

I don't understand that flight and cabin crews accept such lousy speakers as their only means to communicate to the pax. After all they are flying every day all day long and are much more prone to experience an emergency some time during their career. Their well being is also dependent upon panic not breaking out because nobody understands the instructions.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineBri2k1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 988 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2630 times:

I agree you can't hear the F/As. On a recent F9 flight on a very new A319 (which is very quiet inside from takeoff through landing), it was as though the F/As had swallowed the microphone prior to making announcements. By contrast, when an announcement came from the flight deck, it was very clear and at a fine listening volume. I don't know how many F/As read this forum, but if they are interested in having people pay attention to their announcements, they could consider announcing them, instead of mumbling!


Position and hold
User currently offlineBrownBat From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2629 times:

Quoting Julesmusician (Thread starter):
All pilots and crew must be well aware that a substantial majority of passengers are still not really paying attention to safety briefings

Are you sure that this is the case? How do you know? Have you asked every pax if they heard the briefings? I guarentee you that even those who are pretending to talk with their neighbors and acting like they don't care about the briefing are fully listening with the other ear.


User currently offlineJulesmusician From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2616 times:

I suppose the ultimate test is to say something like "in the event of decompression the oxygen masks will fall down like this and everyone will get a cheeseburger"

those that look up were listening and those that weren't would not look up. what a photo that would make looking down the plane at the end of that sentence...

J


User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3078 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2602 times:

Life vests just allow the search crews to find the bodies floating in the water easier.

GS



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offline727EMflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days ago) and read 2578 times:

How to make folks pay attention? Be interesting! I haven't flown WN in many years, but I would guess their style holds the pax attention. I was on an OO flight, UA6166 SAN-LAX recently and the lone FA grabbed many a FF's attention by stressing we were so close to the runway that she "had to speak very fast so please pay close attention." And she held attention by being witty with the announcement, substituting the seatbelt instruction with "if you don't know how to use one of these by now, you reeeealy need to get out more!"

Overall, I think those pax who need to pay attention to the brief generally do. I've flown about 30 segments this year on everything from EMB-120's to 744's and mostly have gotten mad that the demo cut out Ch. 9 on my UA flights... But on two trips I had my infant son with me. You can bet that those times I paid extra attention to "secure your own mask first" and to the life vest instructions. Similarly, I imagine that a passenger who has never flown, or or flies seldomly or reluctantly pays attention!

Related, but off topic, I have heard several times recently the line "if you are traveling with children or someone acting like a child..." Is this the F/A's being cute/attention grabbing or are they trying to mention incapacitated folks who need personal attention such as the mentally and physically disabled, elderly, etc? (BTW the OO gal used that line too.)


User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2573 times:

Quoting 727EMflyer (Reply 16):
I haven't flown WN in many years, but I would guess their style holds the pax attention.

Actually WN says it so fast you don't even know what they are saying, I have flown WN mabe of a total of 10 trips in my life and I can't remeber a time when they tried to be funny.


User currently offlineNeilking From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2569 times:

Haven't read this thread all the way through but on an EasyJet flight I was on recently, one cabin attendant got a passenger to pay more attention by thwacking him on the back of the head with a rolled up newspaper! Well done was my reaction.

Personally, I always make a point of looking as if I'm paying attention (to manual demonstrations, not videos) if only just to make the cabin crew feel better and that someone appreciates their little "dance".

Let's face it, if your plane crashes, it's a matter of pure luck whether you live or die and zilch to do with whether you appreciate the nearest exit maybe behind you - 100 other people will be trampling over you to get to it and are you not as likely to die in the crush if the impact and fire has not already killed you?

Am I too cynical?

Neil


User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2563 times:

Quoting Neilking (Reply 18):
Let's face it, if your plane crashes, it's a matter of pure luck whether you live or die and zilch to do with whether you appreciate the nearest exit maybe behind you - 100 other people will be trampling over you to get to it and are you not as likely to die in the crush if the impact and fire has not already killed you?

True, except your thinking of the worst case scenario which won't likely happen. But what about the more likely cases of a runway overshoot or fire in the cabin, then you will need to have paid attention to the flight attendants.


User currently offlineNeilking From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2557 times:

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 19):
fire in the cabin, then you will need to have paid attention to the flight attendants.

Take your point Airwillie but what about the BA 737 which went on fire at Manchester, England in about 1984? I'm no expert but from what I remember reading about it, the UK authorities looked into the "survivability" of that accident and I couldn't help thinking that, despite all the well-meaning conclusions and recommendations, it was a question of "luck or death"

I have no industry knowledge - just expressing a view as an occasional passenger with an interest.

Rgds, Neil


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2549 times:

When the FAs were doing the safety demos and reading/performing the instructions I paid attention -- both out of courtesy and curiousity to see if they'd "spice it up" at all. (I was on an AS flight in early 2001 and they did it as a literal song-and-dance routiene).

Now, I love CO, but the one area where I don't partiularly care for CO is the fact that the safety demo is part of the "Welcome Aboard" video tape package. It is always exactly the same every time I fly, therefore, there is no longer any reason to pay attention to it. The FAs seem apathetic about this part of the flight, why shouldn't I be? (Heck, on one of my last flights I was in an exit row next to someone WITH A CANE and no one said anything, and I can't tell you how many seats I've seen fully reclined during take off and landing). I get on, sit down, and locate the nearest exits (usually I'm sitting next to one) and then stare out at the ramp until we're airborne.

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 11):
But it might cost 20 dollars on each plane to exchange those loudspeakers with ordinary car stereo speakers from the cheapest car brand.

I've never run into a aircraft PA system that was inherently awful... And even the best concert rig will sound like it's been through a washing machine if someone's eating the mic as lunch.

Also keep in mind that as soon as you print the words "FAA Approved" (or similar) on something like a speaker costs rise astronomically. What could be a $20 difference between aircraft speaker and uncertified cheep car speaker may become a $40 difference in the other direction when all is said and done. Plus there are other factors we may not be aware of (are aircraft PAs 'constant voltage' systems? If so then a transformer is also needed, and the list goes on...)

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineJetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2543 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2542 times:

Quoting 727EMflyer (Reply 16):
I have heard several times recently the line "if you are traveling with children or someone acting like a child..." Is this the F/A's being cute/attention grabbing or are they trying to mention incapacitated folks who need personal attention such as the mentally and physically disabled, elderly, etc? (BTW the OO gal used that line too.)

I've heard this line and every time it was said tongue in cheek. Anyone seriously likening a disabled passenger to "behaving like a child" is likely to be fired and quite right too. That interpretation certainly never crossed my mind. It's a joke, for sure, aimed at otherwise normal adults who behave like spoilt children on flights sometimes.

I agree about Southwest F/A humour. I've heard laugh out loud stuff on their flights. I've certainly heard the seat belt comment before, and not just on Southwest.

Personally I feel the safety videos are mostly counter-productive. The best are factual and show the safety equipment in actual use. The worst are the cartoons, like Virgin's pathetic and dated demo. I pay attention to a "live" briefing much more, unless the F/A is clearly bored by the whole thing.

The current standard briefing is completely the wrong way round. The important safety stuff, about the oxygen masks and cabin evacuation, comes at the end, when most people have lost interest. The pointless stuff about life-vests and seatbelts seems to take priority. Who needs to be told how to use a seat belt these days. It's an insult to your intelligence. Might have been relevant 40 years ago but no more.



The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
User currently offlineLitz From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1757 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2502 times:
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Quoting David L (Reply 9):
Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 8):
I must admit I don't pay attention anymore, all I do is look for the nearest exit and how many rows I have to pass to get to it.

That's fair enough - it's pretty much what I do, along with a quick check on how the doors on that aircraft are opened.

I have, on occasion, been asked by the FA's if I was ok on emergency procedures (having read a book through the safety briefing, ignoring the whole thing) and was pretty much left alone when I rattled off, the # of rows on the plane, the location of the exit rows, etc ...

When you've been on an MD80 100+ times, you learn such things ...

That and the fact that I could probably direct a re-make, word for word, of the Delta safety video ...

Yeah I should probably pay attention, but I've heard the info sooooooo many times, it's totally, subconciously, ingrained and memorized.

- litz


User currently offlineNeilking From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2487 times:

A couple of points on this thread but as I do not work in the aviation industry I stand to be corrected:-

1. Is the obsession with how to unbuckle your seatbelt (someone commented on this above) maybe something to do with the Air France A320 Habsheim accident where I believe it was concluded that a child failed to escape from the plane because he/she didn't know how to unbuckle his/her seat-belt.

2. I once read an accident report of a plane decompressing (UK Airtours A320, I think) and the UK AAIB conducted a study into how passengers reacted to donning oxygen masks. It emerged that some were reluctant to don their masks because they smelt the chemical reaction producing the oxygen and thought the O2 system was malfunctioning.

That was a revelation to me because I always assumed the O2 was in a tank somewhere - not produced by a chemical reaction which makes a smell as it goes off. So, although I consider myself quite knowledgeable about the airline business (although in an amateur way), if I had not known this, I might have demurred from donning my mask thinking I was going to breathe poisonous fumes.

All this is a long winded way of saying that it surprises me (considering the UK AAIB has done a study) that safety demonstrations/videos don't mention something about not being put off by the smell.

I also accept that my comments here negate my earlier point about "what's the point, you're dead anyway?" So you live and learn thanks to A.net subscribers.

Comment welcome.

Regards

Neil King
Edinburgh, UK


25 Post contains images David L : That's fine if you regularly travel on the same type or, if you're familiar with several types, you know which one you're on "now" - BA has three typ
26 PMN : True, but that's only one example. Take the Air France A340 at YYZ. Looking at the aftermath it's incredible that every single passenger survived. I
27 Litz : They are called "Oxygen Generators", and yes it's a chemical reaction that produces the O2. If you rememeber the Valujet crash due to inflight fire,
28 Jetlagged : Some aircraft do have O2 cylinders for passenger oxygen, so it's not true to say all passenger oxygen is chemically generated.
29 Jetlagged : It was as a result of that enquiry that we now have mandatory floor level lighting to assist evacuation. We nearly got mandatory smoke hoods (rather
30 Neilking : I suspect you didn't mean this implication Jetlagged but I wouldn't like this to be read as blaming the crew for the fire consuming the fuselage. Was
31 Jetlagged : My apologies to anyone who thought that was what I meant. I don't think the accident report blamed the crew in any way, nor did I mean to imply that.
32 Neilking : I guessed you didn't mean the implication and I think we're in agreement JL. I recall at the time of this accident (1984??) that a friend of my paren
33 727EMflyer : I suspect we use those same oxygen generator systems in my line of work. "Chlorate Candles" do produce a very high quality breathable gas as they burn
34 Post contains images Kerberos : I'm sure the passengers of the AF A340 in YYZ would beg to differ. I'm by no means a frequent flier, but I manage 3 or 4 round trips a year. I always
35 DH106 : I expect to be flamed for this - but speaking as a passenger, I'd pay more attention if they didn't run Ads on the same system.
36 Turnit56N : Whenever I sit in the back I make a point of attentively listening to the safety briefing, even if it's on the video. Sure, I have it memorized, too..
37 SlamClick : Perhaps the briefing should include a statement like this: "We are now going to tell you about the safety features of this aircraft. Those of you WAIV
38 LFutia : I always pay attention to the safety demos even if though i've flown many times. Yeah i'll look out the window a few times, but I always pay attention
39 HAWK21M : Maybe then it can be proved they did not hear the Briefings. The Starting sentence is normally not heard by most.Ideal would be to get everyones atte
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