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Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?  
User currently offlineKeta From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 448 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7072 times:

Looking at this picture:


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Photo © Andrew Hunt - AirTeamImages



I noticed that there is no trim wheel like that seen in other Airbus' planes. So how is the trim controlled? Is it done with those big mouses?

Also, are the keyboard and the screens part of the equipment of the A380 or are they for testing only? Maybe they can play FlightSim while they're flying  Silly


Where there's a will, there's a way
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7057 times:

Very good question, Keta. Blowed if I know the answer.  Smile


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 984 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7014 times:

Quoting Keta (Thread starter):

Also, are the keyboard and the screens part of the equipment of the A380 or are they for testing only? Maybe they can play FlightSim while they're flying

They are standard flight deck equippment


User currently offlineFlyAUA From Austria, joined May 2005, 4604 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7004 times:

Quoting Keta (Thread starter):
I noticed that there is no trim wheel like that seen in other Airbus' planes. So how is the trim controlled?

It's all automatic trim as far as I'm aware. The pilots don't "control" the trim anymore.



Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
User currently offlineUniuniunium From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6965 times:

IIRC, the older Busses had trim wheels next to the thrust levers as backup if the autotrim failed. I think there may be an alternate trim switch (similar to what you see on newer B767s and B777s) located right above the rudder trim switch dead center on the console at the bottom of the picture.

User currently offlineElGreco From France, joined Nov 2005, 164 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6939 times:

Quoting Keta (Thread starter):
Also, are the keyboard and the screens part of the equipment of the A380 or are they for testing only?

The A380 try to become the first plane really without paper in the cokpit, so that's why the put directly keyboard for both pilot and copilot, they will be retractable.

You also can see on your picture the TACS system where cameras with optical cables give very nice view of the planes from the rear top and below the plane just after the front landing gear. Already available on 345 and 346, it's a good help for pilots on the ground but it's also possible to give image on IFE system (this is already happen on some airlines by the camera with optical link here give an incredible quality).

For the wheel, I'm not sure, but may be we need to see an other one picture.



When you are right alone, you are wrong
User currently offlineAgill From Sweden, joined Feb 2004, 1011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6923 times:

Quoting Keta (Thread starter):

Also, are the keyboard and the screens part of the equipment of the A380 or are they for testing only? Maybe they can play FlightSim while they're flying Silly

I thought those were for being able to post here while flying. I mean most of us read here on the job, so why shouldn't the pilots  Smile


User currently offlineZarniwoop From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6912 times:

Check this thread from tech/ops forum (regarding the pitch trim wheel):

A380 Pitch Trim Wheel (where Is It?) (by Zarniwoop Jul 18 2005 in Tech Ops)


User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6887 times:

If i'[m not mistakem, i'd say they are using Microsoft Windows for the computer at both sides.

Thanks
Mike


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6817 times:

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 8):
If i'[m not mistakem, i'd say they are using Microsoft Windows for the computer at both sides.

While there is no big reason why not, it's probably an embedded OS based on something else.

AFAIK you can still trim with the thumb buttons on the sticks if you have to revert down from Normal Law, but my memories are fuzzy on this one.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4689 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6805 times:

Yes. Mechanic trim wheels are not used anymore since the A340-500/-600/-300E came into production. IIRC, they´re also deleted on new A330s. As Starlionblue said, there are electronic trim buttons.


Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineMusapapaya From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1093 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6687 times:

One question to you guys - do you know who is the supplier of the nice LCD screens? They look really big and nice. Thanks.

Regards.



Lufthansa Group of Airlines
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6678 times:

Quoting Keta (Thread starter):
I noticed that there is no trim wheel like that seen in other Airbus' planes. So how is the trim controlled?

As was said above, most modern aircraft built in the last 20 years do not have a trim wheel. Trim, along with roll and pitch are adjusted and controlled with toggle switchs on the center console. Some even have a second thumb switch on the yoke.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineCALPilot From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 999 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6619 times:

If you look at the bottom of the picture (lower center pedestal) you can see the knob for the rudder trim.

Just above that is a rocker switch, with a split. This in other aircraft is a Alt. Trim Switch, as a Boeing person I would suspect that this is the same in the updated Airbus.


User currently offlineB744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6590 times:

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 8):
If i'[m not mistakem, i'd say they are using Microsoft Windows for the computer at both sides.

i sure hope that keyboard has ctrl + alt + del capabilities...


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6563 times:

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 8):
If i'[m not mistakem, i'd say they are using Microsoft Windows for the computer at both sides.

BTW...What is the Operating System in use.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineKeta From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6537 times:

Thanks for your answers guys!

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 8):
If i'[m not mistakem, i'd say they are using Microsoft Windows for the computer at both sides.

Yeah, it looks like. But I definitely hope they don't! I wouldn't want to have to restart the flight while on the air!  Silly



Where there's a will, there's a way
User currently offlineBeowulf From Singapore, joined Jul 2003, 735 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6524 times:

Quoting Keta (Reply 16):

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 8):
If i'[m not mistakem, i'd say they are using Microsoft Windows for the computer at both sides.

Yeah, it looks like. But I definitely hope they don't! I wouldn't want to have to restart the flight while on the air!

While I am certainly not defending Microsoft, you have to look very carefully at what's causing an operating system to crash. Is it really the OS that crashes or is it rather an application running, which makes the OS go blue. Often it's also hardware/drivers causing trouble.*) So, for critical systems only certified applications and hardware are allowed. Developing your own operating system is costly; no one does it unless they have to. Remember, we are talking of this screen with a keyboard here and not about the computers that control flight dynamics.


*) An example: I am running OpenBSD, a sturdy "UNIX" flavor, on my laptop when it crashed. But in fact the XServer, an application, crashed and, but the operating system still worked because I could log in via ssh and reboot the box.

[Edited 2005-11-14 14:23:28]

User currently offlineBuckFifty From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1316 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6488 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 10):
Yes. Mechanic trim wheels are not used anymore since the A340-500/-600/-300E came into production. IIRC, they´re also deleted on new A330s. As Starlionblue said, there are electronic trim buttons.

That is not true at all. Trim wheels are still used on all those aircraft. The 346's I fly still has the trim wheel, albeit the trim setting after the engine start has now become automatic.

The 380 is the first Airbus that will not have a trim wheel, instead relying on electrical motors which will activate the control surfaces during an emergency. However, I'm not conversant as to how this system works in it's entirety, someone else can perhaps explain this issue better.

The trim wheels on the other Airbii do not have much of a function, except to set the trim setting after the engine start, trim the aircraft when it is in direct law (with an accompanying ECAM message telling you to do so), and to control the stab trim in case of a full electrical and hydraulic failure. In the Airbus event timeline, this is called a mechanical backup, as the aircraft can only be controlled by the trim wheel and rudders only. In all other circumstances, Airbuses are all fully trimmed automatically, unlike Boeings, where pitch trim is either full manual or semi-auto.


User currently offlineCCA From Hong Kong, joined Oct 2002, 838 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6466 times:

Quoting BuckFifty (Reply 18):
to control the stab trim in case of a full electrical and hydraulic failure. In the Airbus event timeline, this is called a mechanical backup, as the aircraft can only be controlled by the trim wheel and rudders only.

The Airbus control surfaces are ALL:
-Electrically Controlled
-Hydraulically ACTIVATED

The stabilizer (and rudder on the A330/340-300) can also be CONTROLLED mechanically not ACTIVATED mechanically.

No Hydraulics = NO MOVEMENT

The 737 is an example of an AC with mechanical activated controls as backup in the event of a total hydraulic failure.
http://www.b737.org.uk/flightcontrols.htm

[Edited 2005-11-14 18:34:28]


C152 G115 TB10 CAP10 SR-22 Be76 PA-34 NDN-1T C500 A330-300 A340-300 -600 B747-200F -200SF -400 -400F -400BCF -400ERF -8F
User currently offlineBuckFifty From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1316 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6450 times:

You're right, CCA, my bad. Type too much.

User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6485 posts, RR: 54
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6408 times:

Quoting Beowulf (Reply 17):
While I am certainly not defending Microsoft, you have to look very carefully at what's causing an operating system to crash. Is it really the OS that crashes or is it rather an application running, which makes the OS go blue. Often it's also hardware/drivers causing trouble

It's a Windows feature to crash along with crashing application- or driver software.

It's quite natural. Windows was produced to make it as difficult as possible to run non-Microsoft software. OS to application interface is kept as complicated as possible.

All other operating systems were produced to make it as easy as possible to run foreign applications. OS to application interface is kept as simple as possible.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4212 posts, RR: 37
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6325 times:

The trim wheel is in the same place as the CRJ.... it doesn't have one.

I don't even think the airbus has "trim" im the common sense of the word- It automatically trims b/c there is no positive control feedback through the stick. We have a normal trim clicker on the yoke- but no wheel... just a digital and tape display of the trim position.



Chicks dig winglets.
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