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Standard Climb!  
User currently offlineBryan Becker From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 333 posts, RR: 0
Posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1946 times:

This is from my other post "can some one help me".I was wondering if some one could tell me what the standard clomb rate is for the following planes,and if you just you just know a few just post them and someone else will do the rest or all.An I know that it depends on the temp of that day and many other things,so please do not say that Smile.....................

737(family)>

757>

747>

777>

717>

319>

320>


-BryanBecker Big thumbs up

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKing767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1759 times:

Add the 767 to that, I think it's 7,000ft per minuite for standard. I could be completely off though.
-Tom


User currently offlineJetguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1737 times:

Brian...
There's really no such thing as a standard climb rate. It's a function of many variables. Weight, outside air temperature, etc.


User currently offlineBryan Becker From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1727 times:

I mean what is the maximum climb that the A/c can do,An then why does it say on the charts:standard climb with a minimum of 350ft per NM,what does the standard part mean? Smile



-BryanBecker Big thumbs up


User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1713 times:

The figure u have quoted is the MAX climb rate, which depends again on the Weight and other factors such as temperature etc which affect the pitch and engine thrust settings, which in turn have an effect on the actual climb rates.

Std climb rates should be around 3000 fpm for initial climb and terrain clearance, settling down to around 2000-2500 fpm. Older planes like 747-200's required a "step-climb", whree they climb to around 29000 feet @1500 fpm, and an even more leisurely climb after that.

This is from what i have heard from pilot friends.


User currently offlineFlight152 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 3413 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1698 times:

Bryan The Max. climb rate and the standard climb rate are two totally different things.

User currently offlineFlight152 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 3413 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1688 times:

Bryan- You really need to recheck your spelling and grammer before you post a topic, I can see a few errors.... but this!

User currently offlineKing767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1675 times:

Ok thanks IndianGuy.
-Tom


User currently offlineFutureatp From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1658 times:

Please correct me if I am wrong. But dont they just set the engines in climb setting (example 88% n1) and pitch for a sertain airspeed? Seems much more pratical to do that instead of throwing in 1800 ft per min. However that is how I do it on MSFlightsim. But in real life I set power and pitch for a certain airspeed as suggested in the operating hand book for the ac I am flying. It should be noted that I fly 172s and Bonanzas and not 757s or a320s
John


User currently offlineJetguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1641 times:

You're correct, normally you set climb power and fly the appropriate speed profile - you take what you get as far as climb rate.

User currently offlineJoona From Finland, joined May 2001, 1038 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1614 times:

Indianguy:

Step Climb is still used on many aircraft, not just the 744. A340, MD-11, B747, B757/B767, you name it.

Joona



1740 days idle. Beat that.
User currently offlineBryan Becker From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1613 times:

Whats a step climb?


-BryanBecker Big thumbs up


User currently offlineJoona From Finland, joined May 2001, 1038 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1608 times:

If you're, for example, fully loaded with pasengers and cargo and fuel, you can't climb to FL390, for example, immediately. Instead, you initially climb to FL290, and after burning enough fuel, climb to FL310, burn enough fuel again, climb FL330 etc. all the way up to FL390.

Basically you climb in steps, thus calling it Step Climb.

Hope you understood  Smile

Joona



1740 days idle. Beat that.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1603 times:

>>>I mean what is the maximum climb that the A/c can do, and then why does it say on the charts: standard climb with a minimum of 350ft per NM,what does the standard part mean?

Brian,

I've looked over the messages and it appears that the word "standard" is being taken out of context here. What's being communicated here is not "standard" climb rates, but rather, the weather required for IFR takeoff minimums. From page XV of the current DOD "flip"...

"Civil Users: FAR 91 prescribes standard takeoff rules and establishes takeoff minimums for certain operators a follows: (1) Aircraft having 2 engines or less- one staute mile; (2) Aircraft having more than 2 engines- one-half statute mile. These standard minima apply in the absence of any different minima listed below." Folling this, each airports is listed, along with what the takeoff minimums for that airport are. (With Jeppesen, all this stuff isn't centralized, and an airport's takeoff minimums are more conveniently located on an airport's 10-9/10-9A page).

Your quote above wasn't quite complete, so I'll pick a complete example, say, for Abilene Reginal Airport. For runway 17L, it requires 1200-2 (a 1,200' ceiling and 2 miles visibility), and is also annotated "or standard with minimum climb of 270/NM to 3200." Most simply stated, that means if your particular aircraft is capable of, and can achieve (as loaded) a climb rate that will attain a minimum of 270 feet for every nautical mile traveled, and further, that you can maintain this rate of climb until you reach 3,200 feet, *you* can use the "standard" takeoff minimums of either (visibility as low as) 1 mile, or 1/2 mile, depending upon how many engines your bird has. If your aircraft can't do that rate of climb, you're stuck on the ground at ABI until the visibility makes it to 2 miles.


As far as climb (and descent) rates for various types of aircraft, here is what ATC expects, and they're expressed in FPM...

http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Appendices/atcapda.html


User currently offlineBryan Becker From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1583 times:

All aircraft have a maximum climb that the aircraft can handle.the maximum the aircraft was built to do Smile


-BryanBecker Big thumbs up


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1578 times:

>>>All aircraft have a maximum climb that the aircraft can handle.the maximum the aircraft was built to do..

Well, yeah, but it somthing of a nebulous/moot point. Any similarity to this rate (determined in flight test) and the rates achieved in every-day operations are often purely coincidental. (Your milage may vary, and objects in the mirror are larger than they appear...)  Big grin

Back to one of your previous quotes/questions...
>>>I mean what is the maximum climb that the A/c can do,An then why does it say on the charts: standard climb with a minimum of 350ft per NM,what does the standard part mean?

I'm going to take a stab at this and presume you're familiar with your local Falcon Field there at Mesa. Before you go any further, head on over to Jeppesen's site at: http://www.jeppesen.com/onlinepubs/aptrelease.phtml, click "Accept" and then scroll/click on FFZ. A .PDF file of the FFZ airport will appear, and can be printed off for reference.

If you're still with me at this point, look towards the bottom where it says "Takeoff and IFR departure procedure" and specifically, at runways 4L and 4R.

Jeppesen always lists minimums from best-to-worst when reading left-to-right. Thus, 2700-3 applies to every one. Moving towards the left, if you can meet the 350'/NM minimum climb rate to 4,100', *you* can use the "standard" takeoff minimum visibility of either 1 mile, or 1/2 mile, depending upon how many engines you have. That ability to takeoff with as low as 1/4 mile visibility is not applicable to everyone, and must be approved in an airlines Ops Specs.

So...
What appears to have been missing from your previous "standard climb with a minimum of 350ft per NM" excerpt was something more like: "Runway 4L/4R takeoff mins 2700-3 or standard with min climb 350'/NM to 4100'"

Clear now? In aviation, context can be crucial..  Big grin





User currently offlineBuff From Australia, joined Mar 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1558 times:

Just to focus on one small point made earlier: one should never set vertical speed to regulate climb performance on any aircraft.

For any given vertical speed command with a constant power setting, as the aircraft climbs the indicated airspeed will decrease. Many pilots have had a rude awakening as the stick shaker goes off while climbing to altitude. Or worse where there is no stick shaker, a stall.

The question about climb rates after takeoff are minimum climb rates that must be sustainable with an engine out to use that particular departure procedure. If your aircraft cannot maintain those feet-per-nautical-mile rates, then you should not use that procedure.

Best Regards,

Buff


User currently offlineM tamminiemi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1547 times:

The climb method based on aircraft weight decreasing and allowing a higher level is called cruise climb.

Step climb is a climb dictated by ATC altitude restrictions.


User currently offlineAmbasaid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1538 times:

Sorry M tamminiemi,

Step climbs are governed by the aircraft weight and not ATC. Look at a heavy B747 after takeoff, it will have a hard time getting above FL290 regardless of what level ATC offers it.

Your description of cruise climb is correct, but the only commercial aircraft that i know of which uses this procedure is Concorde, it is given a block of airspace to operate in rather than a specific flight level.


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