Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Premier's Hybrid Deicing System  
User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Posted (8 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2750 times:

anyone ever get the chance to use premier's hybrid deicing system? it uses both forced air at a high pressure mixed with glycol to deice the airplane. they say that there are certain times where the air is enough to sufficiently clean the airplane. air is then mixed with the glycol in the nozzle before being sprayed on the airplane in an effort to reduce the amount of fluids used per application. has anyone here been lucky enough to use this system? what's it like. does it live up to the good reports?




more info on premier's site: http://www.premier-deicers.com/mt43i21hdse.html

we use a more traditional truck at my station, this one: http://www.premier-deicers.com/mt18.html


"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2741 times:

FX has some at STL. The mechanics, who do the deicing here, are not big fans of the compressed air. They think it isn't as efficient with snow and is worthless when it comes to ice. They end up using a stream of straight type II to deice and use just as much anyway. However, they do enjoy the enclosed cab.


DMI
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31679 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2713 times:

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 1):
The mechanics, who do the deicing here

Why do you say Mechanics doing de-icing.Are they a part of Mx.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2710 times:

They have a small op with only two DC-10s nightly. Rather than pull employees from the sort and loading (which is a pretty efficient job and everybody already has a task) they have the mechanics do it. By the time the aircraft is ready to be deiced the mechanics have completed their daily check and assuming nothing's wrong, they're sitting around.


DMI
User currently offlineDC8FriendShip From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 242 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2685 times:

I know United has some in DEN, but as far as I know, they like them. I would love to at least try one out.


Come fly the Friendly Skies of United
User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2622 times:

i would love to get my hadns on one and just play with it for a day... just to see what it's like.

understandably, it seems like ice might ose a problem for the design of that truck.



"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31679 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2603 times:

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 3):
By the time the aircraft is ready to be deiced the mechanics have completed their daily check and assuming nothing's wrong, they're sitting around

Are they provided training prior to be put on De-Icing duty.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineMissedApproach From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 713 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2577 times:

Here's a link I bumped into, USN testing the Premier system in Maine:
http://www.lakehurst.navy.mil/p2/servlet/DocServletPrint?wDID=343
We have two of the FMC AirFirst systems here. If we just have a half inch of light snow they sometimes clear planes with just air.



Can you hear me now?
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2565 times:

MEL,

They're provided with reccurent training every year.

One of the big problems they have with the system here at STL (using the FMC AirFirst trucks) is that the snow is often wet and heavy. Apparently the airport has the third highest consumption of runway deicing fluid nationwide because of the nature of our snow. Unless it's bitter cold outside sweepers are virtually useless here.



DMI
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31679 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2552 times:

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 8):
Apparently the airport has the third highest consumption of runway deicing fluid nationwide because of the nature of our snow

And how is this Fluid delivered at the Airports.
How is it heated prior to use.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2550 times:

Spray trucks. I'm pretty sure that the stuff (For the life of me I can't remember what the chemical name is, it will come back to me as soon as the ramp freezes and I start cussing about the landlord not using it on our ramp)they use on the runways isn't heated. There are three large tanks that are used to store the stuff.


DMI
User currently offlineNtspelich From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2487 times:

Forced air trucks are horrible. They're incredibly slow, you don't have the spray control you do in a bucket with a hose. We had one at BWI but it's out of comission and on its way to some other station after we complained about it so much.


United 717 heavy, you're facing the wrong way. Any chance you can powerback to get off of my deice pad?
User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2299 times:

One of the big problems they have with the system here at STL (using the FMC AirFirst trucks) is that the snow is often wet and heavy. Apparently the airport has the third highest consumption of runway deicing fluid nationwide because of the nature of our snow. Unless it's bitter cold outside sweepers are virtually useless here.


the purchace of the FMC trucks sounds like a definite desk decision made without any research having been done into the nature of thier operation.



"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineQM001 From Portugal, joined Mar 2004, 281 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2183 times:

Hello all,

Forced air is a great concept, but like most concepts practically its a disaster as how would you determine hold over time using forced air. I have found in general that forced air actually uses more fluid that usual in most cases.

In principle the same is applicable for the infrared de-icing, at the end of the day, it takes longer than a full de-icing, and secondly, you would have to spray in any form of precipitation anyway.

Such concepts are great for small out of the way airports, but for major hubs, would cause major delays.

Thanks and brgds,

QM001 (167 Air Malawi)



I wish there was still a flying boat service on the African Lakes!
User currently offlineKBGRbillT From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2160 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 9):
And how is this Fluid delivered at the Airports.
How is it heated prior to use.

Glycol is delivered to airports usually by tankers over the road or rail cars. It is heated in each individual deicing truck by fluid heaters.

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 10):
I'm pretty sure that the stuff (For the life of me I can't remember what the chemical name is, it will come back to me as soon as the ramp freezes and I start cussing about the landlord not using it on our ramp)they use on the runways isn't heated

It's called Urea, but I think that everyone else is talking about A/C deicing not runway deicing.

Quoting Ntspelich (Reply 11):
Forced air trucks are horrible. They're incredibly slow, you don't have the spray control you do in a bucket with a hose. We had one at BWI but it's out of comission and on its way to some other station after we complained about it so much.

Once you get proficient with a joystick controlled boom it is virtually as fast as a hand held hose, at least on the FMC Airfirst trucks.

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 8):
One of the big problems they have with the system here at STL (using the FMC AirFirst trucks) is that the snow is often wet and heavy.

I think the design of the Airfirst system was intended to remove large amounts of light loose snow real fast instead of using gallon upon gallon of glycol to wash the saturated pink snow of the surfaces. When used for this reason it is extremely fast and effective. I don't believe that it was intended to be effective on wet and heavy snow.

Quoting QM001 (Reply 13):
Forced air is a great concept, but like most concepts practically its a disaster as how would you determine hold over time using forced air. I have found in general that forced air actually uses more fluid that usual in most cases.

Explain how using forced air to remove as much frozen contamination as possible before applying deicing fluid would result in using more fluid than without the forced air. It doesn't add up, at the very most it would require the same amount of fluid to remove the same amount of contamination.


User currently offlineORDsnowman From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2111 times:

Lets clear up a bit of this info....

Quoting KBGRbillT (Reply 14):
It is heated in each individual deicing truck by fluid heaters.

Actually, there are deicing operations in North America and other parts of the world where the fluid is heated in a central tank and distributed to each truck at a temp of 85C.

Quoting KBGRbillT (Reply 14):
Once you get proficient with a joystick controlled boom it is virtually as fast as a hand held hose, at least on the FMC Airfirst trucks.

define virtually????? There is only one truck manufacturer in the world that this is true and that manufacturer is not FMC (or Premier, or Global)......

Quoting KBGRbillT (Reply 14):
Explain how using forced air to remove as much frozen contamination as possible before applying deicing fluid would result in using more fluid than without the forced air.

The original discussion began with fluid injected into the forced air, with that i will answer,

Heat breaks the bond between the aircraft and the adhering frozen precipitation. When the equipment manufacturer injects fluid into the forced air the fluid cools very quickly after it leaves the nozzle. Cool deicing fluid is not very effective and has an extremely short time before it refreezes during periods of active falling freezing precipitation.


User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2090 times:

ORDsnowman, what manufacturer are you talking about?


"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineORDsnowman From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2031 times:

Cancidas, here you go....

http://www.g-vestergaard.com/de-icing/beta.html


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2025 times:

I don't know of anybody here in Alaska that uses air, save for the US Air Force.

Up here though that forced air system would probably make a lot more sense, since we tend to get a lot more very cold fluffy snow.

Where I worked we used to send our ramper out with a leaf blower and a ladder to get powder off the wings of our aircraft.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Premier's Hybrid Deicing System
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Airbus And Boeing Trim System Differences. posted Fri Sep 29 2006 05:37:17 by JetMech
What Is The 'Self Protection System'? posted Tue Sep 5 2006 17:50:10 by EI787
Runway Lead In Lighting System (RLLS) Question posted Thu Aug 3 2006 21:27:51 by NZ8800
B752 Freighters Cargo Fire Extinguishing System posted Fri Jul 28 2006 12:21:21 by HAWK21M
747 Brake System - How Heavy? posted Sat Jul 22 2006 20:36:23 by Tropicalsq744
New Pavement Element System At Ramp posted Fri Jul 21 2006 12:47:26 by JHSfan
New Great Flight Tracker System posted Thu Jul 20 2006 00:39:33 by Wardialer
Auto Land System Control From Ground posted Fri Jun 23 2006 06:14:41 by Yanksn4
Inventor Patents New Emergancy Landing System posted Wed Jun 21 2006 10:54:56 by Pilot3033
B752 Fuel Adapter Caps & Fuel Jettisioning System. posted Sun Jun 4 2006 19:50:50 by HAWK21M

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format