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Runway Light Inoperative . Is The Airfield Closed?  
User currently offlineHamad130 From Saudi Arabia, joined Nov 2005, 20 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4204 times:

Hi all
IF THE RUNWAY LIGHT ( CL ) CENTER LINE&( REIL) RUNWAY EDGE LIGHT ) NOT WORKING DURING NIGHT OPERATING . CAN I LAND IN THIS AIRFIELD OR IT WILL BE CLOSED . ? WHAT IS THE REFRENCE HERE ?

THANK U
( A GOOD PILOT IS ALWAYES LEARNING )


( A GOOD PILOT IS ALWAYS LEARNING )
13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4096 times:

There are no regulations saying that you need runway lights to land/takeoff at night (part 91 ops). You'd be pretty reckless if you did so unless there was no other option though.


09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineXjramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2459 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4062 times:

WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?

If a tower operated airport (24 hours) has the lights off, it is for a reason. This usually means that the runway(s) is/are closed. However, if its a tower that has operating hours (such as tower closed between 0500-1100Z) the lights are operated by the pilot. This also applies to the non towered fields. I am not sure about the international regs on this tho.

Ralgha said it right:

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 2):
You'd be pretty reckless if you did so unless there was no other option though.

Reckless and stupid.

Hope this helps.

XJR



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4054 times:

It really depends on the OPSPEC for the airline you're working for. However if the question is for GA, then the answer is no. There is no requirement for runway lights, REIL, or C/L lights to be working.

User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5396 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4027 times:

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 2):
There are no regulations saying that you need runway lights to land/takeoff at night (part 91 ops).

Right, and for FAA Part 135, and Part 121 it is a requirement to land only at a lighted runway/heliport at night.

As an interesting (perhaps) side note - I have watched C130s at ILG doing touch-and-goes at night and requesting the lights be turned OFF!


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4025 times:

It's really not hard to land on a runway with no runway lights, provided your landing lights work and you are familiar with the area. In fact, it's not a bad idea to try it once or twice WITH SOMEONE WHO KNOWS THE AIRPORT WELL, and where you can turn on the lights if you need them. There may come a time when an emergency dictactes that you land at an airport without the convienience of runway lights, if you've done it before, you'll be much more comfortable with the situation.


09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineFokker Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4016 times:

The real question is, what if the runway conveyor belt is not operational. What do you do then?

User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4007 times:

Well, then you're screwed, because everyone knows that if the tires hit a surface that's not moving at the same speed as the aircraft then the tires will explode.


09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3947 times:

Quoting Fokker Lover (Reply 7):
The real question is, what if the runway conveyor belt is not operational. What do you do then?



Quoting Ralgha (Reply 8):
Well, then you're screwed, because everyone knows that if the tires hit a surface that's not moving at the same speed as the aircraft then the tires will explode.



Back to the topic.Won't the Rotating beacon on the Tower indicate its status.
Also most Runways have back up systems installed.I personally like the Brightness selection in FOG weather.where the Intensity of the lights can be gradually increased.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineA346Dude From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1281 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3928 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 8):
Quoting Fokker Lover (Reply 7):
The real question is, what if the runway conveyor belt is not operational. What do you do then?



Quoting Ralgha (Reply 8):
Well, then you're screwed, because everyone knows that if the tires hit a surface that's not moving at the same speed as the aircraft then the tires will explode.

Anet will never be the same after the great conveyor belt debate of 2005.  Silly



You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
User currently offlineStall From Switzerland, joined Apr 2004, 257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3909 times:

Quoting Xjramper (Reply 2):
Reckless and stupid.

But you can find yourself where you had to divert (due to fog for example at the first airport) to an alternate and suddenly in the pattern the runway lights go off. What do you do if there is no other alternate.

You have to land.

If you have never practiced a night landing without runway lights that's will instantaneously become a challenging task. But if you had already done it, it will be easier and safer.

I think it is best to practice that kind of landing with a CFI with good knowledge of the field. When I learned to fly my instructor did exactly that, it was actually fun and a precious learning experience.

If I have the option to land with runway lights on that will be the option I will choose.



Flying is fun
User currently offlineXJRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2459 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3897 times:

Quoting Stall (Reply 10):
But you can find yourself where you had to divert (due to fog for example at the first airport) to an alternate and suddenly in the pattern the runway lights go off.

You would land?

Hmm...methinks not. Even if you have to go missed, then go missed. But, attempt to turn them back on if you are on base or even turning into final. I always be safe when flying at night and re-cue the lights just so that never happens.

XJR



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineA346Dude From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1281 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3893 times:

Quoting XJRamper (Reply 11):
You would land?

Hmm...methinks not. Even if you have to go missed, then go missed. But, attempt to turn them back on if you are on base or even turning into final. I always be safe when flying at night and re-cue the lights just so that never happens.

OK, but what if there is a power failure at the airport or something like that, so re-cueing the lights does nothing. And to compound the problem, as this is your alternate, you are almost out of fuel and not within range of any other airport. Improbable, perhaps, but in this case the best option is clearly to land on the runway without the aid of lights.



You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
User currently offlineJoness0154 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3883 times:

Quoting XJRamper (Reply 11):
You would land?

Hmm...methinks not. Even if you have to go missed, then go missed. But, attempt to turn them back on if you are on base or even turning into final. I always be safe when flying at night and re-cue the lights just so that never happens.

Well, here's my take on it and it has to do with 91.175.

If you're IFR on an approach to an uncontrolled field with PCL, the only way you can decend below MDA is having

threshold
threshold lights
threshold markings
runway
runway lights
runway markings
TDZ
TDZ lights
TDZ markings

If I'm on an approach and the lights go out and I can't see the runway, I'd go missed but if I can still see the runway, TDZ, threshold, etc and their markings I would continue on and land, as you are using them as a reference anyway, not the lights.

If you can physically see the runway at night (full moon, etc) then its alright in my book to continue to land. The lights do not illuminate the runway per se, they only outline it but if you have the physical runway in sight it doesn't matter IMO.



I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
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