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Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings  
User currently offlineKL671 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 141 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7637 times:

I don't think that these lugs are installed to allow quick wing replacement, or to give maintainers somewhere to clip their safety harnesses to. The lug is at the very bottom of the first pic and there is one with two holes, centre left in the second.

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Anyone out there know what they are used for?

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7625 times:

There intent is a place to tie off the life raft if so needed. They can also be used to tie down the aircraft if it is exposed to high winds....


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7622 times:

Its the Lug to which the Attach rope is attached to,in order to help the Pax evacuated in an emergency.
The Emergency Escape slides mounted however have a bordered/walled area that guide the Pax during Evacuation.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2469 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7607 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):
There intent is a place to tie off the life raft if so needed.

Correct. These hooks are designed and sized such that if the airplane would sink with the lift rafts attached, they break away so that the airplane does not pull the life raft under the surface. Therefore I don't think they would be strong enough to tie down the airplane on the ground for strong surface winds.



Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlineSkydrolBoy From Canada, joined Sep 2003, 341 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7598 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):
They can also be used to tie down the aircraft if it is exposed to high winds....

Never seen anyone tie down a 320 Before.


User currently offline320tech From Turks and Caicos Islands, joined May 2004, 491 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7591 times:

You guys kidding or what? Life rafts aren't launched from the wings - how would you get the thing through the emergency exit? The life rafts are on the pax doors - if there are any at all.

Tie downs? Are you tying it down while it's on its back? Having tripped over them a few times, I assure you that it will not break away to prevent a life raft from sinking with the aircraft.

If you look at the overhead bins, right by the emergency exit, there is a very narrow bin - about 3" wide. Inside there is a rope with a clip. Guess where it clips to.

The rope, I presume, is a last resort to get people off the wing, if the slide doesn't inflate. If the slides work, there's no need to use the rope.



The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3671 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7572 times:
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Quoting 320tech (Reply 5):
You guys kidding or what? Life rafts aren't launched from the wings - how would you get the thing through the emergency exit? The life rafts are on the pax doors - if there are any at all.

Supplemental life rafts are most definitely launched from the overwing exits and are required on overwater equipped aircraft that do not have enough slide/rafts for all pax. These can be basically found on all commercial aircraft with overwing exits. When packed, they easily fit into the overhead bins.

The open bin in this picture is right by the overwing exits of a 767-300 and the orange thing in the bin is a supplemental life raft for 46 people.


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Photo © Erik Nugal



I was an observer in an airline's FAA certification for emergency evac, which included a mock water landing evac. I was specifically asked by my boss, the airline safety director to observe the overwing evac and sat in a row right behind the overwing exit. I remember that the tie down was used not for life rafts, but a rope to help guide pax out of aircraft and off the wing. The supplemental life raft was tied down to a spot inside the aircraft and released by cutting the line with a knife that is attached to the raft right by the line.


User currently offlineA319XFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7525 times:

The 2 yellow rings are actually for mx operators to attach themselves to while working on the wing.... Don't know what the single one is for though, as if you tie yourself to that you'd be near to the edge already!

And the stupid answer for this would be that as the wings are made in the UK, it's to attach gliders to, should the need arise in a war... 

[Edited 2005-12-03 15:19:20]

User currently offlineA319XFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7518 times:

Quoting KL671 (Thread starter):
I don't think that these lugs are installed to allow quick wing replacement

P.S. The word 'quick' and 'wing replacement' do not go together!! Never heard of a wing replacement. Seen other crazy things being done with wings, but never a replacemrnt (well after it's attched that is). You'd have to go oversize holes on the complete cruciform and that probably won't get approved by anyone!


User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3086 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 7473 times:

On the B737 and 727 the hooks are for the guide line when you go out the over win exit. It stops the person from running out to the wing tip in an emergency. I am not sure they would be used in a real emergency but in training i have seen the F/A's use them. I would think they are the same for the Airbus because they look exactally the same and are in the same location.

Tieing off there would be no real advantage and there is not a lot of MTCE actions that take place on the wing tops. You enter the tanks and change pumps from under neath. Usually when you are up high you are not tied off to the airplane but to an over head restraint system. Plus the holes are way to small for the hooks on most safety lanyards.

GS



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineA319XFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7464 times:

I meant the other one further outboard. We were wondering about it when a colleague and I were working on a wing and looked it up....
And we also asked a wing design engineer and he said that was what it was for too!

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 9):
You enter the tanks and change pumps from under neath.

No need to remind me about entering tanks and changing pumps - I've got enough fuel, thyecol (spelling?) and the green vaseline stuff they put around the manholes on me for a lifetime! Big grin

[Edited 2005-12-03 20:05:40]

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7376 times:

Quoting SkydrolBoy (Reply 4):
Never seen anyone tie down a 320 Before.

Why Tie down an Aircraft from above the Wing  Smile
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineA319XFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7373 times:

You can tie them down at the nose when you're doing gear swings in jacked up position. That way your're sure it won't suddenly land on its behind.....

User currently offline320tech From Turks and Caicos Islands, joined May 2004, 491 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7306 times:

Why Tie down an Aircraft from above the Wing

You wouldn't.

You can tie them down at the nose when you're doing gear swings in jacked up position. That way your're sure it won't suddenly land on its behind.....

Nothing personal, but do you have some evidence for this ridiculous idea? When an A320 does a gear swing on jacks, the aircraft is supported on the three normal jacks only. The tail steady, which prevents the airplane from "sitting down", is removed to prevent damage to the tail.

The 2 yellow rings are actually for mx operators to attach themselves to while working on the wing.... Don't know what the single one is for though, as if you tie yourself to that you'd be near to the edge already!

Also not true.

Supplemental life rafts are most definitely launched from the overwing exits and are required on overwater equipped aircraft that do not have enough slide/rafts for all pax.

Thanks for the info. The question, though, is about the A320, not the 767. I've never seen supplemental life rafts on an A320 - not to say they don't exist - and I've never seen anything to say that they're used as tie-offs for life rafts.

I remember that the tie down was used not for life rafts, but a rope to help guide pax out of aircraft and off the wing.

Seems plausible to me, but again, life rafts are not launched off the wing, as far as I know.

Where's the call button on this thread - we need an A320 flight attendant.



The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
User currently offlineMiamiair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7303 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):
They can also be used to tie down the aircraft if it is exposed to high winds....

They are called mooring points.

Quoting SkydrolBoy (Reply 4):
Never seen anyone tie down a 320 Before.

When your A320 is undergoing maintenance in, lets say, Miami, and it is summer, read hurricane season, and it just so happens a hurricane is coming and your A320 can't fly, you have to try to minimize the damage to it. Keep it from weather vaning, hitting other airplanes, ending up in a canal...All of this has happened at MIA.

On the 727, at the nose jack pad, this can also be used to tie the airplane down; to a tie down or weights.


User currently offlineA319XFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7255 times:

Quoting 320tech (Reply 13):
Nothing personal, but do you have some evidence for this ridiculous idea? When an A320 does a gear swing on jacks, the aircraft is supported on the three normal jacks only. The tail steady, which prevents the airplane from "sitting down", is removed to prevent damage to the tail.

Yes, it's done on the FAL in Hamburg when the aircraft is jacked up for the gear swing tests as an extra safety precaution - that and there are probably people working in the cabin moving around (as for that particular test the customer can request to be there and witness it).
Probably not in service (in hindsight I have to agree with you, I never saw it in YWG), but for sure at the FAL.

Will have to check up on the lugs another time.





[Edited 2005-12-05 10:50:31]

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7196 times:

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 12):
You can tie them down at the nose when you're doing gear swings in jacked up position. That way your're sure it won't suddenly land on its behind.....

Wasn't the Nose & Wing Jacks cater to the Aircraft while jacked & the Tail jack is a safety jack not carrying load.So how will a Tie down help.

Never heard this before.Where at the Nose is the Tiedown done & with what.
regds
MEL

[Edited 2005-12-05 16:36:18]


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offline320tech From Turks and Caicos Islands, joined May 2004, 491 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7185 times:

When the A320 is on jacks, even doing a swing, we have people working in the cabin. Additional support at the nose isn't required. I could see it on a DC-9 - one sat down when the forward pax seats were removed and a bunch of people were working in the back of the cabin - but an A320 C of G is far enough forward of the main gear that it sits just fine on the three jacks.

There is no attachment by the nose gear to allow you to attach any kind of support. Are you using a trestle or something else?

For what it's worth, when the engines are removed, we install a pallet of rails or concrete (about 4,000 lbs, I believe) in the forward cargo to make the airplane behave itself.



The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
User currently offlineA319XFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7177 times:

Quoting 320tech (Reply 17):
There is no attachment by the nose gear to allow you to attach any kind of support. Are you using a trestle or something else?

For what it's worth, when the engines are removed, we install a pallet of rails or concrete (about 4,000 lbs, I believe) in the forward cargo to make the airplane behave itself.

This is the case here too - engines aren't installed yet at this point.
It's not a trestle, more like a huge oversized backpack strap (technical term is eluding me now). I can't visualise where it is attached to now, so shall check tomorrow and update you then! (We'll get there in the end!)  Smile

[Edited 2005-12-05 18:00:36]

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7097 times:

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 18):
shall check tomorrow and update you then!

Any Update.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineA319XFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7070 times:

Right, here we go:

Regarding the tie down. In the AMM I could only find a procedure for mooring when not on jacks (ATA 10-20).
Otherwise on the FAL when the aircraft is jacked up, the tie-rope is either attached over the drag strut assy of the NLG or then there is a special fitting that is attached by 4 bolts to the bottom-left of the L1 door (fuselage, not door). The holes are then sealed up.

Regarding the yellow lugs on the wing:

The single one is to tie down the overwing slide (see A319 CAOM 1.03.03 Page 11 Figure 2)

The double lugs further outboard are for tieing the "Life Lines" from above the emergency exits to it as a hand-hold (A319 CAOM 1.03.03 P.22). As the A319/A320 has the same wing, only one line is needed for the A319 (one exit), for A320 two lines needed (two exits).


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6972 times:

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 20):

Whats the update on the Tying of the Nose Jack with Aircraft jacked up.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineA319XFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6943 times:

It's not tying the nose jack. It ties the nose (or front fuselage) of the aircraft down.

User currently offlineKL671 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6885 times:

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 20):
The single one is to tie down the overwing slide (see A319 CAOM 1.03.03 Page 11 Figure 2)

The double lugs further outboard are for tieing the "Life Lines" from above the emergency exits to it as a hand-hold (A319 CAOM 1.03.03 P.22).

Thanks for the explanation. You have got to admire the flight attendant who would have to get out on the wing after an emergency to rig these lines!

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 8):
Never heard of a wing replacement.

I was joking when I suggested the lugs were for a "quick wing replacement". However they would have come in handy with this repair. Not even the same type of wing!

http://www.douglasdc3.com/dc2half/dc2half.htm

Thanks for all the replies.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6863 times:

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 22):
It's not tying the nose jack. It ties the nose (or front fuselage) of the aircraft down.

Sorry typo.
Any link/reference to the Tying of the nose during Aircraft on Jack procedure.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
25 A319XFW : There is an AMM task for "Shoring" the aircraft (ATA 7-10-00 if my memory serves me correctly) the aircraft when it's on jacks (the full title of the
26 Post contains links and images IFixPlanes : Quoting my Training Dokuments: ATA 25-66 FLOATATION & SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT Life Line Description Life lines assist passengers evacuating the aircraft to
27 474218 : Lockheed replaced the right hand wing on a L-1011 in the late 70's or early 80's. An Air Canada -500 (s/n 1206) right hand wing was damaged during fi
28 Ha763 : That's why I quantified my statement by saying overwater equiped aircraft. The FAs are not the one who will be setting up the lines. It is the helper
29 320tech : A319XFW, thanks for the info. I can't say, though, that I've ever noticed a point on the emer exit where the line would hook onto. I looked at the ima
30 A319XFW : I didn't supply that pic, that was IFixPlanes so the thanks has to go to him. I just supplied the manual references! The reason for it is that when th
31 HAWK21M : Will it make much of a difference practically.With or without the Tying.Also does Airbus recommend it. regds MEL
32 A319XFW : Regarding what Airbus recommends about this, it's probably best if you look at the AMM chapters of jacking, shoring and mooring.
33 RichardPrice : Recently I flew on an Excel Airways 767 as an overwing exit passenger. The wing had a ringhook in exactly the same place, the safety cards the F/As *m
34 Kaddyuk : The closest i've heard is a mid-spar replacement on a B757 at BA... The aircraft was layed up for somewhere in the region of three months...
35 Airgypsy : Wing mate and demate are a maintenance procedures that few mechanics in the airlines ever see. Quite common in business aviation. They put it together
36 HAWK21M : Since you work on A320s & have access to the AMMs.Pls tell us. Is the Nose fuselage jack the Stablizing jack on an MD80.ie it does not take the load
37 A319XFW : Quote for shores from the A320 AMM: "Subtask 07-20-00-583-050 (1) Put shores in position below the wing front spar and rear spar. For detailed instruc
38 HAWK21M : What does the AMM say about Jacking.And about the Tying of the Jack. Tell me the Reference page no. regds MEL
39 A319XFW : There is no reference to tying the jack that I could find. The one used on the FAL is a production method, so not in the AMM, sorry.
40 HAWK21M : Ok.Post a link if you find one. regds MEL
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