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Why The Extra Bogie On DC10-30?  
User currently offlineSK909 From Denmark, joined Nov 2005, 261 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5463 times:

I have been told why there was an ekstra boogie on the DC10-30 vs. the DC10-10, but I can't remember.
It isn't the usual extra weight, rather it was a more subtle reason.
Anyone out there that can refresh my mind?


Life's for Living!
50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineA999 From Norway, joined Mar 2004, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5455 times:

As the -30 is much heavier than the-10 the extra landing gear was necessary to cope with the extra fuel load.

User currently onlineTristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4009 posts, RR: 33
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5439 times:

The Dc10-30 could fly with the centre main leg stowed.
A mate of mine was out in Yemen with a BA DC10 with a flat tyre, and he was lacking a spare. So he removed a wheel from the centre gear, and retracted the leg, and used it to replace the flat one.


User currently offlineSK909 From Denmark, joined Nov 2005, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5432 times:

Quoting A999 (Reply 1):
As the -30 is much heavier than the-10 the extra landing gear was necessary to cope with the extra fuel load.

I know that. But that is not the reason that I am looking for. There is another reason. A more, hmmm, not usually thought of reason.

Keep posting all your ideas?



Life's for Living!
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17041 posts, RR: 66
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5424 times:

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 2):
The Dc10-30 could fly with the centre main leg stowed.
A mate of mine was out in Yemen with a BA DC10 with a flat tyre, and he was lacking a spare. So he removed a wheel from the centre gear, and retracted the leg, and used it to replace the flat one.

As MD11Engineer would tells us: "Prepare for the upcoming weight and balance nightmare".

Quoting SK909 (Reply 3):
There is another reason. A more, hmmm, not usually thought of reason.

I'm not saying you're wrong but I struggle to think of any other possible reasons.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineMatt72033 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1617 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5417 times:

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 2):
The Dc10-30 could fly with the centre main leg stowed.

so can the 340, there i sweight restrictions though!


User currently offlineNW727251ADV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5412 times:

I have never heard of any other reason for the additional center boogie other than because of the extra weight involving the extra fuel.

User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5413 times:

The bogey wasn't actually needed to support the additional weight of the aircraft. It was needed to allow for greater stopping power (braking action) due to the higher weights... in the event of an aborted takeoff. Helped for landing in the same way.

User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5383 times:
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The DC-10-30 is the long range version of the DC-10 and has a center fuel tank to carry the extra fuel. The middle bogie is needed to support the center fuel tank when the tank is full

User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5372 times:

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 5):
so can the 340, there i sweight restrictions though!

Quite serious weight penalties... It will also be an MEL item in that you'll probably only be allowed say 10 sectors or maybe a 7 day limit... Have a flick through chapter 32 and all will be revealed...



Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5351 times:

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 7):
The bogey wasn't actually needed to support the additional weight of the aircraft.

When checking under the DC-10 MAX STRUCTURAL WGT LIMITS you will see
DC-10-30 max t/o......565.0 to 580.0 (a/c specific)
with ctr. retracted.....440.0

DC-10-30 max ldg.......424.0 to 436.0
with ctr. retracted......363.5 (same as max ldg for -10 at flaps 35.)


[quote=Jetstar,reply=8]The DC-10-30 is the long range version of the DC-10 and has a center fuel tank to carry the extra fuel

correct as the -30 has 98.1 lb. in the upper & lower aux.(all wgts in 1000)


User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5349 times:

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 10):
When checking under the DC-10 MAX STRUCTURAL WGT LIMITS you will see
DC-10-30 max t/o......565.0 to 580.0 (a/c specific)
with ctr. retracted.....440.0

DC-10-30 max ldg.......424.0 to 436.0
with ctr. retracted......363.5 (same as max ldg for -10 at flaps 35.)



Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 10):
correct as the -30 has 98.1 lb. in the upper & lower aux.(all wgts in 1000)

these are the limitations that I posted. I don't know why the t/o & ldg. limits were shown as a copied quote from another post. These came from the DC-10 manual.


User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5308 times:

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 2):
, and retracted the leg, and used it to replace the flat one.

How does one retract a single landing gear with a load on it. I didn't think that was possible with out jacks and rewiring


User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5295 times:

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 12):
How does one retract a single landing gear with a load on it. I didn't think that was possible with out jacks and rewiring

On the A340-300, i do belive that you just depressurise the centre landing gear to remove the "weight" from it and then retract the landing gear from underneath the fuselage...

I dont think airbus will have made it so complex that you have to break into Hydraulic lines and jack the aircraft. I'll double check tomorrow...



Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5286 times:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/601566/L/

Bottom left corner.

Pinned for safety

Center landing gear over-ride control. No Mx personel needed like on the 340.


User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5286 times:

The DC-10-40 also has a ctr landing gear.


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5269 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 14):

Bottom left corner.

Pinned for safety



Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 13):
On the A340-300, i do belive that you just depressurise the centre landing gear to remove the "weight" from it and then retract the landing gear from underneath the fuselage...

That is very interesting. Do you need special authorization to do this?


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5265 times:

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 2):
The Dc10-30 could fly with the centre main leg stowed.
A mate of mine was out in Yemen with a BA DC10 with a flat tyre, and he was lacking a spare. So he removed a wheel from the centre gear, and retracted the leg, and used it to replace the flat one.

Presumingly it depends on the Aircraft weight for that flight.There would def be a weight limitation.

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 7):
It was needed to allow for greater stopping power (braking action) due to the higher weights... in the event of an aborted takeoff. Helped for landing in the same way.

Is the Centre Gear Equipped with brakes.

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17041 posts, RR: 66
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5246 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 17):
Is the Centre Gear Equipped with brakes.

Don't know on the DC-10, but the centre bogie on the 340 pair/bogie (depending on version) does not have brakes IIRC.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5240 times:
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Quoting Jetstar (Reply 8):
The middle bogie is needed to support the center fuel tank when the tank is full



I would have guessed the addition of the bogie would be intended to reduce the psi exerted on runways and taxiways, rather than reduce the loads on the fuselage.




2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5239 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 18):
Don't know on the DC-10, but the centre bogie on the 340 pair/bogie (depending on version) does not have brakes IIRC.

Exactly why I asked the question.Also Is the Centre Gear Unloaded under normal conditions on the DC10-30.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineSfomb67 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5187 times:

I'm guessing there are brakes on a DC10-30 center gear, as I have a recollection that the parking brakes have to be off during fueling, or the plane can suffer structural damage.


Not as easy as originally perceived
User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3660 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5172 times:
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Quoting 2H4 (Reply 19):
I would have guessed the addition of the bogie would be intended to reduce the psi exerted on runways and taxiways, rather than reduce the loads on the fuselage.

Reducing the pavement loading is exactly why the DC-10-30/-40 have the center gear. The higher weight of the DC-10-30/-40 means larger or more tires were needed to make sure the aircraft's pavement loading was acceptable for the airports it would fly to.

And here's a bit of information for all of you, the DC-10 main gear tires are bigger than the 747 main gear tires.


User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5162 times:

Ahhh...

Okay, you can retract the CLG on the A340-300 but NOT on the A340-600... I presume that this is because the A346 has a double bogie...

It can remain deactivated for 1000 cycles. Any more than this and it must be hydraulically isolated. It is reccomended to isolate hydraulically after 200 cycles.

First you deflate the HP portion of the CLG Shock Absorber.

After this, if the wheels still touch the ground, you must remove both the wheels. Ensure you Re-install the axle bolt so that you can re-install the wheels at a later date.

You disable the bogie pitch trim system and also ensure that the landing gear downlocks are installed on the MLG and NLG.

You then pressuires the green hyd system and put the landing gear lever into the up position, this will raise the CLG and lock it into position. You then put in place the the CLG Uplock (this inhibits the landing gear from extension). And put the gear handle into the down position.

Close up all the gear doors, remove pins etc etc...



Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5128 times:

Quoting Sfomb67 (Reply 21):
I'm guessing there are brakes on a DC10-30 center gear, as I have a recollection that the parking brakes have to be off during fueling, or the plane can suffer structural damage.

You are correct and this holds true for the MD-11 as well. The parking brake must be off during fueling AND loading/unloading. Part of the capt.'s exterior safety check is to verify that the mains are chocked and the interior safety check confirms the parking brake is released.


25 HAWK21M : Interesting Info.Those chocks better be doing their Job well.Especially on a Freighter. regds MEL
26 Kaddyuk : Normally when on stand the park brake should remain off and chocks should be used. However when fuelling, i've seen the park brake used and the chock
27 FDXMECH : To raise the center gear on the ground is a mx function. The mechanism is in the right main wheel well. Of course the strut must be depressurized pri
28 Kaddyuk : How do you prevent the tyres from "pinching" the chocks?
29 CosmicCruiser : On our DC-10 and MD-11, the center gear is not chocked for the same reason as not setting the brakes. When ready for pushback the tug driver will pul
30 Kaddyuk : But still, the chocks will probable have pinched the tyres... not a major occourance i'm sure but i think it might cause some problems for sure!
31 HAWK21M : Can Refuelling & Cargo loading be done simultaneously on a DC10 Freighter. regds MEL
32 FDXMECH : The center gear isn't chocked. Yes.
33 SK909 : You are absolutely correct... That was the reason that I was looking for... Actually I just asked my dad, former pilot on the SK DC10-30. And he conf
34 CosmicCruiser : I'm going to disagree but I'm not saying that it's not a factor at all. Just for a comparison the MD-11 suffers only a small t/o wgt penalty and no l
35 CosmicCruiser : I must disagree but do realise that the brakes do play a part. Just for comparison on the MD-11 the wgt penalty you suffer for ANY wheel brake deferr
36 CosmicCruiser : For some reason this is the third time I've tried to post my reply. Anyone have any ideas why it goes away? My post was that I still must disagree fo
37 Matt72033 : i see all three posts!
38 CosmicCruiser : That was weird! You can see the time diff between post and I just now see all 3. oh well sorry...CC
39 Dreamflight767 : It has the extra "Bogie" so we know it is a male.
40 HAWK21M : Won't the Shift with Load mvmt on main deck be affected.Are extra chocks used.What clearence between Wheel & chocks existr prior to Refuelling. regds
41 CosmicCruiser : No extra chocks are used. Our manual states that the left AND/OR right mains shall be chocked. The chocks are not wedged and I'm sure there is some s
42 HAWK21M : Is there a Motorised PDUs on the main deck to enable Cargo mvmt or is it Manual on the DC10 Freighters. regds MEL
43 CosmicCruiser : No, it's all done by hand (many hands). The floor has the standard rollers and lock system. The locks clamp onto the rim of the container to prevent
44 HAWK21M : The Weight & mechanism of the PDUs would count. So there are no Freighters with Motorised PDUs in Existence. regds MEL
45 CosmicCruiser : All I can speak for is Fedex and none of our jets have a mechanized loader in the jet. I should say that the "loaders" which take the containers from
46 HAWK21M : Adding Motorised PDUs would speed up the process but add unwanted weight & mechanical complications if u/s. regds MEL
47 Post contains images Lehpron : I'm sure you meant it could land with the wheel stowed. I would suspect all aircraft could fly without needing their wheels.
48 Post contains links and images ReidYYZ : It is my understanding that Fedex bulks out before they max out on weight. Manual rollers are just that, lighter and virtually mtce free= cheaper ove
49 CosmicCruiser : That's not an entirely correct statement. If you're assumming this big jet is full to the ceiling with featherweight boxes you're wrong. When we leav
50 ReidYYZ : Then, my understanding is incorrect, sorry.
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