Broke From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1322 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2487 times:
I don't know if this is what is happening at IAH with Continental, but I have seen other carriers at other airports push the airplane off the gate on time and then resume loading baggage on the ramp. There are bag that were at the airplane before the pushback. It creates the false impression that the flight left on time but it doesn't do anything for the passengers.
Kaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4125 posts, RR: 29 Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2467 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6): I thought Chocks off was when Aircraft moved on its own power for the purpose of Flight.
Negative, "Chocks Off" is when the aircraft rolls back on push...
An engineer from a different company says that alot of pilots ask to roll the aircraft back 1ft or so and then back on to stand to trick ACARS into thinking that the aircraft left on time (and therefore, they are paid extra and there is no "delay" its simply a longer than normal taxi time).
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
US AIRWAYS From United States of America, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 432 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2438 times:
Kaddyuk is right on the money as this happens when there could be some alley traffic but there is still room to push. It is actually not how many feet you push but how fast the plane moves. I think it has to get up to about 2-3mph. I've seen the water filled before after pushing, but never had to load bags. Supposedly it would reset the "out" time from the ACARS, and the pilots don't erally like that too much.
Grbld From Netherlands, joined Dec 2005, 353 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2419 times:
Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 7): ...alot of pilots ask to roll the aircraft back 1ft or so ...
That is just sad
Remember not to set the parking brake because the ACARS may provide a new off blocks time when you do the second time if the engines aren't running yet.
Hmm, in all my years of line flying I've had that occur only once! We were in India (Cochin) on a special charter and we had to bring our own tow bar. So after pushback, stairs were brought to the plane, our maintenance technician went down to disassemble the 250lb towbar and they put it in the hold. Extremely strange procedure. You're not allowed to land there without your own tow bar, the approach controller even checks with you upon arrival. Instead of just allowing aircraft to do nose out parking...
But other than that, when we're off blocks, the bags don't get on.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2343 times:
Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 7): Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):
I thought Chocks off was when Aircraft moved on its own power for the purpose of Flight.
Negative, "Chocks Off" is when the aircraft rolls back on push
Out here the Chocks off defination under C.A.R. issued by DGCA is as stated"Chocks off was when Aircraft moved on its own power for the purpose of Flight"
CitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2229 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2259 times:
Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 7): An engineer from a different company says that alot of pilots ask to roll the aircraft back 1ft or so and then back on to stand to trick ACARS into thinking that the aircraft left on time (and therefore, they are paid extra and there is no "delay" its simply a longer than normal taxi time
I know for a fact that happened frequently at AA. My wife was a gate agent for AA years ago. Back then the pilots would only have to release the parking brake on a 727 to trick ACARS into an on-time departure. They would do that to give them an on-time departure, but also extend their "flight" pay duration but also increased the documented taxi times.
Tristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3689 posts, RR: 34 Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2255 times:
Quoting CitationJet (Reply 11): release the parking brake on a 727 to trick ACARS into an on-time departure
That was on the old OOOI Acars (Out Off On In)that US carriers had. It was very simple and easy to trick. The modern ACARS fitted now is much cleverer and needs a message from EICAS that the doors are closed, and the park brake off to set the Off time. Opening a door again will reset it. As US pilots are often paid on flying time, they all had tricks to set the ACARS to Out with the aircraft still on the gate. On the Tristar the Park brake CB was involved.
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10): "Chocks off was when Aircraft moved on its own power for the purpose of Flight"
In Europe flight departure is when the park brake is released to push back from the gate. At Terminal 2 at ARN we do deicing after pushback, so we get on time departures in the winter, and take off times delayed by the deicing time.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2251 times:
Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 12): In Europe flight departure is when the park brake is released to push back from the gate. At Terminal 2 at ARN we do deicing after pushback, so we get on time departures in the winter, and take off times delayed by the deicing time.
Presumingly the Defination is only to please people with Stats
regds
MEL
Fr8Mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 4242 posts, RR: 12 Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2248 times:
Our 'block-out' time requires 'brakes off', 'all doors closed', and 'IRS/INS valid'. Setting the brakes will not show a 'block-in' without losing one of the other parameters.
Tristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3689 posts, RR: 34 Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2219 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 13): Defination is only to please people with Stats
Well no. If you have an automatic system like ACARS which records the flight times for you, then flight times are easy, you can use the air/ground sense system. But block times are more difficult. If you use parking brake off with doors closed to parking brake on after landing as your definition of block time then a computor with prox sensors can do it. If you use moving the aircraft under its own power, how do you measure it accurately? You would need some kind of towbar not fitted sensor, and throttles advanced, and aircraft moving. All a bit wishy washy. Block time and flight time are defined by FAR and EASA regs. You have different definitions in India. Perhaps your ACARS are programmed differently, or you have a man watching and writing it down.
DeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2192 times:
Done it a bajillion times. It's usually right after you've disconnected the tow bar and the marshaller is about to toss the salute....someone from the bagroom comes screaming down the ramp with a tug teetering with golfbags and other huge bags.....make X with wands to the crew....open C1 door (on a 767 it's easy....757 you'll need to stand on the tug to unlatch it). Heave and throw bags into belly (hopefully break some of those stupid golf clubs)...close door....get everyone out, then go.
The pilots don't seem to mind at all, couple more bucks never hurt
Kaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4125 posts, RR: 29 Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2157 times:
Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 12):
That was on the old OOOI Acars (Out Off On In)that US carriers had
It is still used on the modern carriers, Out is chocks off... Off is takeoff, On is landing and In is the end of the flight. Granted as you mentioned there are other factors involved. But it is still possible...
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2129 times:
Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 15): If you use moving the aircraft under its own power, how do you measure it accurately
Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 15): You have different definitions in India. Perhaps your ACARS are programmed differently, or you have a man watching and writing it down
Thats correct.Its manually recorded by Flt Ops [crew],Security,Grd ops & Mx.
regds
MEL
Tristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3689 posts, RR: 34 Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2109 times:
Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 17): It is still used on the modern carriers
Sorry, to clarify what I meant. On the TWA TriStar in the mid 1980s there was an ACARS. It only recorded OOOI times, and sent them.
Modern ACARS also records OOOI, but also sends messages and has a printer and a screen so you can call up the weather, receive loadsheets and send and receive telexes.
Av8trxx From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 657 posts, RR: 7 Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1955 times:
Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 16): ....someone from the bagroom comes screaming down the ramp with a tug teetering with golfbags and other huge bags....
That is the usual reason. Late bags are not that big of a deal but bags that are not tagged late will cost delivery charges at the other end so ya gotta do what you can to get them on. Occasionally the crew will ask for a cargo door recycle as the indicator light is intermittent.
Back in the day when I was a ramper I occasionally forgot my sunglasses on top of the bin door, so I'd have to go back and open it to retrieve them too.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1933 times:
Quoting Av8trxx (Reply 20): Back in the day when I was a ramper I occasionally forgot my sunglasses on top of the bin door, so I'd have to go back and open it to retrieve them too
Av8trxx From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 657 posts, RR: 7 Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1876 times:
LongbowPilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 577 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1748 times:
Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 7): An engineer from a different company says that alot of pilots ask to roll the aircraft back 1ft or so and then back on to stand to trick ACARS into thinking that the aircraft left on time (and therefore, they are paid extra and there is no "delay" its simply a longer than normal taxi time).
can we say WN?
25 RachelBDL: WN doesn't yet use ACARS for times, it's based on what the pilots determine the times are. But we can come up for a lot of excuses to not put a delay
26 ATCT: We do it all the time if an idiot checks in late and checks a bag. Got to run that bag from the bagroom to the plane ASAP, usually when the plane is h
27 Cancidas: ACARS is a beautiful thing though. if you're trying to make someone sweat but not make it seem like you're trying to hurt them then you send them all
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