Speedracer1407 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 333 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4313 times:
This might be a question that has an obvious answer, but I'll ask it anyway since it seems that layman common sense rarely applies to the complicated world of aviation.
Are pilots of 2 or 3 person flight crews trained in the sims to respond to emergencies in which he or she is the only pilot left to fly the plane? Seems like this kind of training would be sensible, but how far does the training go? Are pilots trained to deal with this situation during a mechanical emergency? Do procedures change (simplified?) to account for the extreme workload of a single pilot scrambling in a 2 or 3 flightcrew environment? Thanks for any replies.
Dassault Mercure: the plane that has Boeing and Airbus shaking in their boots.
Speedracer1407 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 333 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4303 times:
DOH! Ok, the ONE time I felt confident that no one had posted a similar question recently, it turns out that Julesmusician has asked a different, but somewhat related question. If moderaters choose to deleat this thread, I'll just post the question on Julesmusician's. Otherwise, I'm still curious about my original question, which hasn't yet addressed specifically on the other thread.
Dassault Mercure: the plane that has Boeing and Airbus shaking in their boots.
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 69 Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4206 times:
There is a an old story about a captain dying not long after takeoff and the first officer returned the plane to the field. Around the crew lounge the following week it was the topic of many conversations that ran along these lines: The captains were all surprised that they had a copilot at the company who knew how to fly an airplane. The first officers wondered how the guy could tell the captain was dead.
In some sim evolutions I've done "subtle incapacitation" training. It would just be a routine approach but the instructor would pass one of the pilots a note that told him to stop responding at some point. It was really fun. I loved playing the pilot whose mind had just shut down!
As far as steering without a tiller, the first jet I flew, the training captain made me taxi all the way to the final turn toward the jetway with the pedals. Then he'd take over and steer it to the gate. If we parked on an open ramp somewhere he would make me park it without a tiller. Unless a fairly tight turn is required, it can be done. It did require a bit of planning.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
CosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2254 posts, RR: 16 Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4196 times:
Quoting David L (Reply 3): and there's no tiller on the FO's side, presumably getting the aircraft off the runway is something that would be dealt with "later".
In a situation as you've described I don't think you're going to taxi to the ramp so it's not a concern. The F/O brings the a/c to a stop on the runway and the emerg./rescue vehicles will meet you there. After all are cared for the jet will be towed to the ramp/gate.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31457 posts, RR: 57 Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4159 times:
Quoting David L (Reply 3): presumably getting the aircraft off the runway is something that would be dealt with "later".
Considering the Aircraft got back in such a situation.Taxying back to the gate would be the last thing on the Single pilots mind
Some Aircraft do have tillers on both sides,then theres always the rudder pedals with restricted steering angle & Differential braking.
CcrlR From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2212 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4106 times:
I remember one time where there was a post about a Saab S340 First officer who had to make a emergency landing when his captain had a medical problem, but he ended up landing the aircraft safely and the captain was ok. I would personally think it would be the same for a heavy too and they would be able to land and taxi off if they sit in the left seat.
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
Matt72033 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1617 posts, RR: 4 Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4085 times:
Quoting David L (Reply 3): If the situation is reversed, i.e. the Captain is incapacitated, and there's no tiller on the FO's side, presumably getting the aircraft off the runway is something that would be dealt with "later
would a FO ever ask someone to clear the Captain out the way and he would take over from the left seat? or is it not worth it?
Lowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10 Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4075 times:
Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 11): would a FO ever ask someone to clear the Captain out the way and he would take over from the left seat? or is it not worth it?
Not only is is not worth it, it is making things more complicated than necessary. There is no problem with landing the aircraft from the right seat. It is done regularly. Keep things as simple and familiar as possible.
An incapacitated crew member is an emergency. After landing, you will probably get all the ground support you need.
Pihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 3825 posts, RR: 73 Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4059 times:
Cabin crews are trained to secure an incapacitated pilot (the gestual is quite interesting by the way) and keep him away from the controls.
I'm shocked that you people would just let the poor guy die on his seat !
Going back to the question asked by the thread starter, yes airline pilots do get that sort of training.
One of the favored scenarios is a pilot incapacitation following a rapid decompression ! very spectacular !
Some airlines advise the remaining pilot to request one FA -or a deadheading - aircrew to assist with the checklist reading.
Like any passenger or crew member you would asses the situation and whether you are going to divert or seek onboard medical attention or both.
Once that decision has been made, the F/O (depending on company SOPs) will set up the F/E panel for landing prior to descending, i.e. the fuel panel and pressurization, basically put things in a position that won't require you to get out of your seat again, i.e. all the packs on, on high flow, set the landing altitude in the pressuization controller, all fuel tank pumps on (tanks with fuel in them) and then run the decent checklist, you could probably stay in the F/E seat until 15 or 20,000' at which point you could go back to your normal duties.
Wrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9 Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3961 times:
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 19): I think most (?) F/Es are pilots, and many pilots have been F/Es, so there is a lot of knowledge shared.
Also, the pilots would need the training to ensure the can manage an F/E out situation.
Well, in some countries (America for example), most of the F/E's are junior/trainee pilots, and are simply there to keep an eye on things.
However, in the UK (with BA atleast) the F/E's were people from engineering, who applied for the F/E job after a certain number of years working on aircrarfts, the F/E's were trained to know the basics of how to fly the plane aswell as do the F/E job, so technically, the F/E could fly the plane.
But I don't think the pilots were trained to use the F/E panel.
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
CosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2254 posts, RR: 16 Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3943 times:
Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 20): Well, in some countries (America for example), most of the F/E's are junior/trainee pilots, and are simply there to keep an eye on things.
You are correct that most F/Es are JUNIOR pilots since, based on seniority, that is the lowest seniority seat but all of our new hire pilots are already very experienced with some previous jet experience behind them be it military or civilian. They don't "just keep an eye on things" they are a very integral part of a 3 man crew that has a very important job as well as an extra set of eyes up front. There was a time when the airlines had professional F/Es that were not pilots but often mechanics but that went away totally here as far as I know. Rarely have I seen a pilot that hasn't been an F/E at least once but even if he hasn't every oral you have in school and especially if it's a type rating oral exam will spend a whole lot of time on the engineers panel. You may not know it as well as an F/E will but you WILL know it.
CX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6450 posts, RR: 56 Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days ago) and read 3906 times:
F/Es in Cathay are just that....F/Es. They are not pilots, but are on the same seniority list. They are guys with vast amounts of experience and a very valuable addition to the flightdeck. We did have some F/Es 'learn' to fly a few years ago when we retired the Tristars and pax 747 Classics. They joined the cadets in Adelaide and did a full ATPL course down there.
As for single pilot ops, we would divert immediately to the nearest SUITABLE airport, which the PF would be happy with. As for removal of the incapacitated pilot, it would really depend on the situation. With an unconscious pilot and an arrival within say 30mins, I would leave the person in the seat. If we had longer, I would search for a doctor to come up. If the person was flailing his arms and legs about, then I would electrically move their seat back and turn off the electrics then get help to remove them from the cockpit.
We are also taught to remove a pilot who may be partially incapacitated. If he/she comes back later and starts giving you instructions, we consider them to still be incapacitated. You just don't know whether they will go mental or start giving you false info. In these cases we would seriously consider sending them back into the cabin to sit, even if they seem to be coherent. Things like this are dealt with on a case by case basis.
CosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2254 posts, RR: 16 Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3893 times:
Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 23): Do you guys have a lot of F/Es on the other end of the spectrum that are "flowbacks"?
I can't tell you the exact numbers or percentages but yes a number of guys that turn 60 and don't want to retire will go back to DC-10 or in somecases 727 F/E. Of course you retain your senority number so you will go back a pretty senior guy in the "back seat".