Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Mx Sucked Into Engine At IAH?  
User currently offlineG4Doc2004 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 123 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6396 times:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/16/airplane.fatality/index.html

Anyone have anymore info on this incident? This is awful......


"Failure to prepare is preparing to fail"--Benjamin Franklin
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineErj-145mech From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 306 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6366 times:

It wasn't in IAH, it was in ELP. The aircraft was destined to IAH. It looks as though is was a lack of situational awareness on more than one persons part.

User currently offlineBritPilot777 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1075 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6296 times:

Mechanic Sucked Into CO 737 Engine In El Paso (by Radiocheck Jan 16 2006 in Civil Aviation)


Forever Flight
User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6097 times:

seriously, is it possible to simply be too close to the inlet without the engine being anywhere near full, even if it were at say idle? Like if I were right up against the lip of the inlet, compared to the inlet's size, I would be a big profile, yes?


The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6092 times:

There's a reason that there are red lines painted on the nacelle that you're not supposed to go past while the engine is running.

On a side note, I've had pieces of cothing and my SIDA badge "sucked" (they didn't come off) while under an F-15. That got my attention.



DMI
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6033 times:

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 4):
There's a reason that there are red lines painted on the nacelle that you're not supposed to go past while the engine is running.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Robin Zartos


regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently onlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14077 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6031 times:

Those lines only apply to an engine running at idle. If it is running at full power the danger area is much larger.

User currently offlineSfomb67 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6031 times:

This goes to show how dangerous it can be working around "live" aircraft at an airport. I'm only glad I wasn't there to witness this as I'm sure this is something you have nightmares about for a long time.


Not as easy as originally perceived
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6002 times:

On another fourm I'm a member of, one of the members said he was a good friend of this mechanic. He was the guy's personal mechanic and just performed an annual on his 172. It was sad to read. Yet another reminder that those of us out on the ramp have perhaps the most dangerous jobs in aviation. Be careful out there everybody.


DMI
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5966 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 6):
Those lines only apply to an engine running at idle. If it is running at full power the danger area is much larger

Agreed.Isn't that area denoted by a Red Vertical line on the Fuselage near the Fwd cargo door on the B737 classics.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently onlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14077 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5856 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 9):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 6):
Those lines only apply to an engine running at idle. If it is running at full power the danger area is much larger

Agreed.Isn't that area denoted by a Red Vertical line on the Fuselage near the Fwd cargo door on the B737 classics.
regds
MEL

Yup. But these lines only apply under ideal conditions, idle power, dry, not slippery ground, no wind. Any change of these factors will increase the danger area.
At full power the danger area actually extends to several yards in front of the aircraft nose, e.g. at idle the danger area is a 180 degree arc of about 6 meters radius from the fan (NOT THE EDGE OF THE INLET, THE DANGER AREA REACHES AROUND THE INLET TO ABOUT WHERE THE FAN COWLS MEET THE INLET COWL), but at take off power the radius will be about 20 meters.
The whole suction is treacherous as well, because the airflow will start almost unnoticably, but increase rapidly getting closer to the engine. And if anybody has ever watched the video showing the guy being pulled into the inlet of an A-6 Intruder on the aircraft carrier, he will see how strong the forces are. The man was lifted into an inlet well avove his head (Luckily he survived, because he got stuck on an inlet guide vane and his helmet got torn off first and jammed the engine a split second before the man would have reached the fan).

Jan


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5740 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 10):
The whole suction is treacherous as well, because the airflow will start almost unnoticably, but increase rapidly getting closer to the engine

Presume no one stays near the Engine during Idle runs.Whats the SOP.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineTimT From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5732 times:

I've done many engine trim runs with the cowling open for idle adjustments, then closed for power, both in the test cell environment and on wing. On a high bypass engine at idle, the most difficult thing is getting past the wind generated by the fan. TOTAL concentration on the task, coupled with a very high level of situational awareness is an absolute need. Above idle, I'm not getting close.

The number 1 rule of avaition; ( I don't remember the exact wording, but it's something like this)

Aviation is, in and of itself, not inherently dangerous. But, to an even greater degree than the sea, it is less forgiving. -author unknown

I always hate to hear about anyone getting hurt, much less losing their life. My sympathies to the family and friends.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5685 times:

Quoting TimT (Reply 12):
TOTAL concentration on the task, coupled with a very high level of situational awareness is an absolute need. Above idle, I'm not getting close.

What about safety harnesses.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineFr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5495 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5567 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 13):
What about safety harnesses

And where would these safety harnesses be attached?

Look, nothing beats complete awareness when moving around an engine. I treat every engine I approach as a running engine unless I prove differently. Complancency is a killer in this business.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5553 times:

Quoting TimT (Reply 12):
The number 1 rule of aviation; ( I don't remember the exact wording, but it's something like this)

One of the most exquisitely-worded quotes ever, and one of my personal favorites as well.

Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity, or neglect.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5486 times:

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 14):
And where would these safety harnesses be attached

Attached to the Engine Flange in the safe zone.Like the JT8D has for Trimming purposes.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineFr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5495 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5458 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
Attached to the Engine Flange in the safe zone.Like the JT8D has for Trimming purposes

I've worked at 3 operators who operated the JT8 in its various incarnations and never once used or seen used the harness. Why? One reason I can think of: safety.

If we are running an engine, the last thing I want to do is to be tied to that engine. Normally, we as a maintenance group, are around a running engine, under the cowl, performing a leak check or in the instance of older engines, doing trim runs. These engine, because they are under maintenance, may not perform properly. When a fuel line sprays fuel, I want to be able to clear the engine immediately. When an oil line ruptures, same thing. Hydraulics, run away. Ever seen a JT8 stall during a trim run?

It's not a bad idea, I think the risk of something going wrong during at engine run for maintenance out-weighs the potential benefit of a harness. Granted, the benefit being the mechanic doesn't get chewed up, but I can now count on 2 fingers when this has happened. I can't even count high enough the amount of times I alone have moved away from a running engine because I didn't like what it was doing. Did I aviod injury? In some cases yes, in most, no, because no injury was going to happen, but I value the ability to retreat.

Again, nothing beats situational awareness when we are operating engines.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5446 times:

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 17):
I've worked at 3 operators who operated the JT8 in its various incarnations and never once used or seen used the harness. Why? One reason I can think of: safety

Its Documented in the AMM.Although its not frequently used.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5434 times:

This reminds me of a guy at BOAC,
The man was wearing a hooded coat, and was standing by the engine of a 747 on an engine test run (100 %) and the hood got sucked into the engine, bringing the man along with it, and he got sucked onto the blades of the engine, He survived amazingly, but lost an arm and leg (although I'm not sure if he lost his leg too) in the process.
Not a nice thing to have happen to you.

Wrighbrothers



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlineGunships From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 574 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5174 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 5):
Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 4):
There's a reason that there are red lines painted on the nacelle that you're not supposed to go past while the engine is running.

Unless I'm mistaken (and that's a real possibility), aren't the red lines shown in the picture posted by HAWK21M meant to illustrate the turbine plane of rotation? As far as I know, these do not exist to warn of the danger of ingestion, but rather to illustrate the plane at which the T-wheel is turning.

In the event of an uncontained failure of the turbine wheel, this is the "most likely" path the fragments would take as they exit the cowling. Basically, it's there to remind you stay in front of or behind the plane of rotation.

Can anyone back me up on this one?


User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5170 times:

One good word of advice I was given a long time ago. When you are around running aircraft, never back up. This applies to propeller aircraft mostly but I use it around any aircraft.

User currently offline777WT From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 877 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5161 times:

Quoting Gunships (Reply 20):
In the event of an uncontained failure of the turbine wheel, this is the "most likely" path the fragments would take as they exit the cowling. Basically, it's there to remind you stay in front of or behind the plane of rotation.

The turbine wheel is at the BACK of the engine, not in the front. That's the fan.

The line is where the fan disk is at and it has a small warning image which is a half radius red filled in circle which means danger area to be at when the engine is running.

About the fragments path, it's designed to contain the fragments and shoot it out the back as the regulations and certification requires.

During testing and certification, the engine has an explosive bolt or other means to release a fan blade at 100% power and see if the contamination shield contained the fragment parts and eject it out towards the back. This was done on the GE90 engine in the building of the 777 video, the kevlar liner did contain the fragments and it was shot out back as excepted.

The uncontained engine failures are rare but still happens such as the delta MD-80 fan disk broke through the shield and penetrated the hull which was a long time ago.


User currently offlineFr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5495 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5138 times:

Quoting 777WT (Reply 22):
The line is where the fan disk is at and it has a small warning image which is a half radius red filled in circle which means danger area to be at when the engine is running.

That line is aft of the fan. The line indicates the danger zone from injestion. If you loo at the decal on the engine, it also shows the entry zone for maintenance.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5095 times:

Quoting Gunships (Reply 20):
Can anyone back me up on this one

Would have to disagree.
Observe the Decals above the line.The top one illustrates no personnell entry beyond & the lower one gives a plan view of the Aircraft danger zone.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
25 Gunships : I see and understand what you are saying, however my comments are directed at the actual red line itself. I believe the line is too far aft to repres
26 Nudlaug : I also have to disagree with Gunship. The red line on the engine cowl marks the forward danger zone for personnel when approaching the engine from the
27 Jetlagged : You are correct that it is too far aft to mark the fan disk, but wrong to assume that it must be the turbine wheel (which one?). You also seem to be
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Mx Sucked Into Engine At IAH?
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Does Engine Exhaust Glow At Night? posted Fri Aug 18 2006 15:04:45 by CURLYHEADBOY
What 4 Engine Jet Can Start 2 Engines At A Time? posted Fri May 5 2006 18:00:41 by 747400sp
Engine Failure Twin Into City On Coast Question posted Fri Apr 28 2006 23:07:44 by JulianUK
Change In Engine Sounds At Max Power posted Thu Jan 26 2006 06:35:53 by Dr.DTW
757 Engine Numbers At Idle posted Wed Aug 17 2005 18:01:27 by Taguilo
Engine Power Setting At Cruise posted Tue Feb 1 2005 22:54:12 by Gulfstream
2nd Engine Failure At CWU In Two Weeks posted Tue Nov 23 2004 04:26:39 by CWUPilot
Engine Thrust At Altitude? posted Mon Oct 11 2004 03:37:52 by ArmitageShanks
Engine Efficency At DEN posted Sun Nov 2 2003 20:06:41 by Futureualpilot
Engine Fans Spinning At The Gate posted Sun Sep 28 2003 00:53:38 by FastFlyer

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format