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Non-Holding 360's During Cruise  
User currently offlineCorey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2528 posts, RR: 5
Posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2558 times:

My girlfriend is flying DAB-EWR today and I just pulled up her flight on flightaware and noticed it performed a single 360 over SC... It doesn't appear to be holding, and if it was it's holding a large distance from its destination. Any of the seasoned jet-jocks have an explanation? I don't think it would be traffic avoidance or weather, but who knows...

http://map4.flightaware.com/flight_track_map.rvt?ident=COA1473;origin=KDAB;destination=KEWR;key=d5a04b941373964f59a4fb8b43af945300e19ae7;height=600;width=800

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2505 times:

Without knowing anymore details and having not been there all I can say is you might be surprised how far away sequenceing into EWR may begin. I've held 3 times in one flight going into EWR and the first hold was over Kentucky!
Maybe the 360 just made a little space to slip another jet or two in the "conga" line.


User currently offlineCorey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2528 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2469 times:

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 1):
Maybe the 360 just made a little space to slip another jet or two in the "conga" line.

Just talked to my girlfriend and she said the captain warned that EWR would be extremely congested today before the flight took off, so this seems to be the reason... thanks


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2458 times:

It is not at all uncommon for ATC to assign us a hold at some point and just about the time we get turned outbound they re-clear us direct to the holding fix and then back on course. Result is a 360, a donut.

And I agree about the sequencing into any of the BosWash airports. It can begin as early as Jupiter for the really longhaul stuff.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineLooneyToon From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 444 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2448 times:

Quoting Corey07850 (Thread starter):
My girlfriend is flying DAB-EWR today and I just pulled up her flight on flightaware

are you pulling a "FLAIRPORT" on us?



LooneyToon
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4212 posts, RR: 37
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2383 times:

Could have been a center controller not accepting a hand off, also. Had to do some wacky turns to keep out of their airspace before.


Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6816 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2337 times:

I was once in a BA DC-10 LGW-ATL that did a 360 about 1hr out of ATL. No explanation why. Traffic avoidance, separation??


wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2278 times:

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 5):
Could have been a center controller not accepting a hand off, also. Had to do some wacky turns to keep out of their airspace before.

Yes. And I've seen a day where that happened at every sector boundary and every center boundary. We were asked to speed up and slow down time after time after time.

We referred to it as "the day we rowed to Denver." Doesn't happen all that often though.

The east coast of the US is a problem because most planes going up and down between, say BOS and MIA or any points between all have to curve in around the concave shoreline. Contrast with the west coast which is convex and flights from say, SAN to SEA go way inland, over Nevada. By comparison the east coast corridor gets really bunched up.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineCorey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2528 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2237 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 7):
The east coast of the US is a problem because most planes going up and down between, say BOS and MIA or any points between all have to curve in around the concave shoreline. Contrast with the west coast which is convex and flights from say, SAN to SEA go way inland, over Nevada. By comparison the east coast corridor gets really bunched up.

Why not avoid this by simply flying from the coast of NC over the Atlantic down into FL (assuming ETOPS A/C)


BTW for anyone interested, the flight path in my original post has changed to the latest flight so the 360 I was talking about isn't there...


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2227 times:

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 2):

Just talked to my girlfriend and she said the captain warned that EWR would be extremely congested today before the flight took off, so this seems to be the reason... thanks

She should be glad she didn't end up in ABE, we picked up a few CO-Ex ERJ's here yesterday due to the congestion at Newark.


User currently offlineCorey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2528 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2211 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 9):

She should be glad she didn't end up in ABE, we picked up a few CO-Ex ERJ's here yesterday due to the congestion at Newark.

The flight was actually a B735 for a nice change... CO upgraded DAB-EWR in December and seems to be staying this way for a while


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2202 times:

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 8):
Why not avoid this by simply flying from the coast of NC over the Atlantic down into FL (assuming ETOPS A/C)

Some do but it is not cheap. ETOPS costs money in equipment, training and certification. "Extended overwater" has helped some too, but the problem still must be dealt with.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineLitz From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1767 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2119 times:
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Last year, I was on a ONT-ATL DL flight ... shortly after we took off, it apparently became apparent that due to 1) huge tailwinds and 2) ATL congestion, we would arrive waaaaay early.

Pilot announced we were going to loiter a bit, and since we were over the Grand Canyon, it was sightseeing time.

Two figure-eights later (and lots of gawking) we continued eastbound ...

 Smile

- litz


User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1652 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2068 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 8):
Why not avoid this by simply flying from the coast of NC over the Atlantic down into FL (assuming ETOPS A/C)

Airliners flying from the Northeast to Florida do not need to be ETOPS certified if they fly out over the Atlantic. The maximum distance from land is about 125 miles, which is well within the 60 minute for non ETOPS aircraft.

Even from New York City to Bermuda falls within the 60 minute rule so
non ETOPS aircraft can fly this as well.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2035 times:

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 13):
Airliners flying from the Northeast to Florida do not need to be ETOPS certified if they fly out over the Atlantic. The maximum distance from land is about 125 miles, which is well within the 60 minute for non ETOPS aircraft.

Within a certain distance from shore (I forget which) they don't even need life jackets.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2010 times:

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 8):
Why not avoid this by simply flying from the coast of NC over the Atlantic down into FL

Also forgot to mention - military airspace out there might be in use on any given day. Some times you may transit, some times not.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineDon81603 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 1185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1906 times:

Quoting Litz (Reply 12):
Two figure-eights later (and lots of gawking) we continued eastbound ...

Now there's a captain interested in public relations! If you have to loiter, may as well turn it into a photo op for the PAX. Did you manage to get any good pics?



Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
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