N766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8721 posts, RR: 23 Posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8235 times:
I figured maybe a follow up to the ATC- What do you hate? thread might be in order. So, to better understand one another I ask this: Pilots- what annoys you about ATC?
For me personally it's when I'm trying to use flight-following over multiple sectors/facilities and I have to keep re-setting my transponder and re-stating my destination every time. Come on, guys, even at 2AM this happens. Rather than just letting me go till I drop off the screen can't you just flash me over at the other facility and hand me off?
Pilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2561 posts, RR: 48
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8225 times:
For me it's when they clear you to land, then 30 seconds later they freak out and ask for your position because a heavy is on the glide, then you answer by saying...uhhh on the ground? that was when i was in the Cessnas
Actually what really annoys me about ATC is when you aren't sure what's up or ask a question, and they give you a sarcastic answer, basically everyone hears you be ridiculed
On a positive not, come on they dont have a nice view by the scopes, and everything is blurry and green they do a great job though, props!
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
N766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8721 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 8222 times:
Quoting Ralgha (Reply 1): I've never had to do that. Where are you flying?
It happens in the Cleveland/Akron/Toledo area mostly. The Detroit and Pittsburgh guys usually take the time to hand me off, same with center, but the Cleveland and Akron controllers are very hard pressed to help you out. I notice I'm about into Pitt airspace and they say "Radar service terminated, squawk VFR, frequency change approved."
IAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8187 times:
Quoting N766UA (Thread starter): can't you just flash me over at the other facility and hand me off?
If the facility you are under control of, even just VFR flight following doesn't put a flight plan into the HOST computer it cannot be handed off in most cases via automation.....but there is always "the landline" to use.
As for changing transponder codes, each facility has a transponder code allocation with adjacent facilities not using similar blocks of codes like a 03XX or 02XX....in some cases you might go from one facility using the 03 block and have to change to a 02 block when you get on their frequency, not uncommon at all but can get on ones nerves quickly.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
FreakyDeaky From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 142 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7980 times:
It's very rare that ATC irritates me - they do an outstanding job and on the whole I think we all work together very well.
But, if there were ever a time I get irritated it almost always starts with New York... I don't take it personally when they start snapping and ridiculing - hey - it's a way of life in New York - so I cut them some slack. It's embarrassing though when the foreign carriers get their azz handed to them by a rude NY controller. I want to come on freq. and say "It's NY, what can we say???"
"Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could."
Turnit56N From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7821 times:
Quoting FreakyDeaky (Reply 9): But, if there were ever a time I get irritated it almost always starts with New York... I don't take it personally when they start snapping and ridiculing - hey - it's a way of life in New York - so I cut them some slack.
Interesting that I completely agree with you, but have the opposite experience. I think that overall ATC does a great job and I'm very rarely annoyed by them. I attribute that greatly to being based in the NY airspace and flying regularly with NY approach and center, who are generally the most efficient controllers I will deal with all day. They may not be the most polite, but I know I can trust them no matter how busy they get. If I am going to get annoyed by a controller, it's probably going to be by one that controls the airspace around a certain city in Ohio on the bank of Lake Erie.
And while I know I wouldn't be the first or last pilot to try it, some slow day I'd love to try "Say again, I was on a land line."
Bri2k1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7766 times:
I wish controllers wouldn't "berate" us for anything. I've never berated a controller. I've very certainly been annoyed with them though. I realize it's a stressful job, but they're up there in the nice, warm tower. Once you're in, you're in (as a controller): there's very good job security, frequent breaks, and much better pay than most pilots. I said it was a stressful job, but they should give us a break every once in a while.
That being said, I really appreciate the controllers at my home class D airport most days. They'll always be as accomodating to my requests as they can be, and are generally friendly, always professional, and usually easy to understand. The other day, probably because I had been friendly and corteous to them all day, they made a Javelin that was taxiing out hold for me to taxi in!
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 22773 posts, RR: 53
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7682 times:
Quoting Turnit56N (Reply 13): Interesting that I completely agree with you, but have the opposite experience. I think that overall ATC does a great job and I'm very rarely annoyed by them. I attribute that greatly to being based in the NY airspace and flying regularly with NY approach and center, who are generally the most efficient controllers I will deal with all day. They may not be the most polite, but I know I can trust them no matter how busy they get.
Rule for dealing with New York ATC: Don't give them any crap, and you'll get the best service you could ever want. But if you act like an idiot, they'll come down on you pretty hard (fortunately, I've never been that person, but I've heard it happen).
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
CX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6805 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7663 times:
Quoting Bri2k1 (Reply 16): I wish controllers wouldn't "berate" us for anything. I've never berated a controller. I've very certainly been annoyed with them though
I agree 100%. There are a few controllers in HKG with very bad patience, especially at the foreign carriers. I know it is stressful, but they should be a little more understanding to those pilots with basic english.
Another thing which annoys me is Singapore ATC, where they always have to have the last word and repeat your callsign. E.g
ATC: "Cathay 717 descend 6000ft"
Pilot "Descend 6000ft, Cathay 717"
ATC "Cathay 717"
One of these days, I am going to say "Go ahead." Afterwards...That will get their knickers in a twist!
OE-LDA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7658 times:
Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 18): Another thing which annoys me is Singapore ATC, where they always have to have the last word and repeat your callsign. E.g
ATC: "Cathay 717 descend 6000ft"
Pilot "Descend 6000ft, Cathay 717"
ATC "Cathay 717"
Interesting. Why do they do that? It makes no sense and seems to be against the standard phraseology. If they want to acknowledge your last transmission (which is not necessary after you read back a clearance correctly) they are supposed to state their own call sign, not the one of the aircraft.
OE-LDA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7559 times:
Quoting Wing (Reply 22): Not only the ATC but anybody in this business who tend to forget that he/she is there to help me do my job easier as a pilot annoys me a lot.
I do not agree with this. I think that it is not the task of ATC to make a pilots job easier. They are there to enable a flight and make it safer. Theyl work with us pilots together on this as a team. The pilots are not the center of the industry, the passengers are!
Please don't take it personal, but I think it is the wrong attitude. Same goes, by the way, for your signature ("Any pilot who does not at least privately consider himself the best in the business...is in the wrong business."). I think this is not correct either.
: I get really frustrated when the controllers are overloaded. I hate getting snapped out. When I was a student pilot I said stupid things on the radio
: Then what is the pilot's job? It's to make a safe flight. You've disproven your own argument. The point of the signature in my opinion is that every
27 CX flyboy
: I think you signature has been misunderstood as the motion that all pilots should have egos the size of mountains and believe that they are flawless.
: I think that sums it up perfectly. That matches mine to a tee. On the positive side I really enjoy a controller that has a sense of humor from time t
: I hear the Pilots at Our Airline saying the same always.Also the tone is a give away. regds MEL
: I think you should wanna go back to read your PPL books because you are totally missing basics and clueless about airline flying. CxFlyboy, About my
: congratulations on your great achievement of finding my grammar mistake.I stand corrected and apologize any inconvenience of my grammar mistake may c
: Whenever they tell me to orbit for a Dash/146 that hasn't been pushed back yet!! PS, When I'm in the circuit, that is![Edited 2006-01-24 14:42:14]
: wing I understand you totally, probably because we went through the same schooling and work for the same airline. There are a lot of people on here wh
: Giving it a second thought, I think you are right. They all work for the pilots. Regards, OE-LDA
: The guys that give you scarcastic remarks when you say 'say again'.
: It drives me crazy when the Boston center controllers say "tree" instead of the number "three"...................."roger Delta one fifty tree heavy, K
: Huh? Ok, I know almost nothing about ATC, but isn't that how you're SUPPOSED to say number 3 on the radio...?
: I must say, the ATC around the Nashville area is great, and I have no "irritations" about them at all.. The controllers @ BNA are very accommodating.
: That is correct: numbers run 0. zero 1. One 2. Two 3. Tree 4. Four 5. Fife 6. six 7. seven 8. eight 9. niner XJR
: The only thing that bugs me about ATC is when they get snappy, as stated previously. I've found however, if you're polite and energetic, they will usu
: At my local airport where I've done my PPL school, LUG, I've always (well, almost) had friendly tower controllers. Only once, when I was doing one of
: Sounds like some trainees to me. I've never had controllers that confused at my home field, even on a really bad day. It's "fower," per the AIM, sect
: Totally with you on that, same as if you're sharing the circuit at EMA with an A340 or similar that train there (they do left circuits we do right).
: A little tidbit of politeness I learned from my very first flight instructor: Instead of asking the tower "Uh, am I, uh, cleared for...you know" beca
: That's how someone after many years of research determined was clearly understood......but the FIFE....we just call it climb and maintain BARNEY thou
: Last night. Pushback was approved by ATC even though there was an Emirates A343 taxying along.Thereafter a reminder needed to be given.Following some
: Good tip, but when you're halfway along the runway hovering at 50ft waiting for clearance, not sure if it would work the same!
: You guys want some really irritating ATC? Play FS9!
: "Say again, I was on the landline" (Yeah right) Or my favorite is the JFK ground controllers who will NEVER admit they screwed up... JFK Ground - "Com
: It takes less time on the radio then "am I cleared to land please?" I know your individual situation was probably different, but I always want to hav
: Here at APA, we have pretty good controllers. I do however get annoyed when I am the only one in the pattern and have to keep calling in, "Skyhawk 4-f
: That's an abbreviated version of standard phraseology. The controller is required, by the book, to reply to every pilot readback with "callsign, corr
: How Imporant are Accents as a cause of irritation. regds MEL
: I don't know. The pilot-in-command is ultimately responsible for the safety of the flight. ATC is great, but flying predates it significantly, and th
: That is correct. However, with the on board aids of modern airliners (reference to TCAS), and even with careful frequency monitoring and knowledge of
: Gotta tell ya, I agree that a pilot is the ultimate commander and TCAS has made things alot safer. Having said that, I sure hope that in your infinit
: The problem of faulty TCAS and Mode C readouts is not the issue here. All technologies have "bad days" from time to time. I merely used TCAS as an exa
: MMMM well as PIC I will do whatever I needed to do for the safety of the flight and worry about any ATC isses afterwards, TCAS should not have any im
: It's been a long day and it's evident in my sentence construction Yes, I mean that the PIC has overall authority and responsibility for the safety of
: I think you're agreeing with me in concept if not in word. I know ATC makes it much safer. But "it" is flying, and flying is done by the pilots. The s
: That was what I was trying to say. ATC is there to help, even though it's, as you said, organisationally below the PIC - and serves the pilot in the
: Hear, hear! I got my PPL at BNA. Those folks are really on the ball. The controllers always worked me through the jet arrivals every time I requested
: what bugs me the most is when you're transient and you don't know about some local procedures. you can read the AFD all you want but certain things ar
: You already corrected your mistake with your own words. The actually annoying thing about the ATC is they act like they own the skies when everything
: No, Jet Harbor, out of Gallatin, M33
: I noticed several people mentioning controllers saying "say again I was on the land line" as one of their pet peeves. If only you knew how much time c