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Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?  
User currently offlineTimePilot From Switzerland, joined Sep 2005, 296 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4949 times:

Pilots: what do you do during take-off and landing? Do you keep quiet and concentrate? Do you talk to the co-pilot? Is there a rule that you need to stay focused?

Same questions regarding landing: Do you have to concentrate? Is it like sit-up-straight-in-your-seat, elbows perpendicular to the floor making hand signals and all that, Roger this and Roger that, or more like *YAWN* "So I'm taking the kids to Disney Land next week ..." -type idle talk with the right/left leg hanging over the control yoke?

I'm interested in what goes on inside the cockpit.  Big grin

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFutureUALpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2605 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4940 times:

Quoting TimePilot (Thread starter):
Is there a rule that you need to stay focused?

I believe most airlines have rules that in effect limit all non-essential chatter between the pilots below 10,000ft. This means that they only talk about things relating to the task at hand, i.e. take-off/climb out or descent/landing.



Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineSeanp11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4938 times:

The sterile cockpit is not just an airline rule, but it is a FAA regulation. I think nowadays pilots are entirely about the business when climbing/descending through 10000 feet.

Quoting TimePilot (Thread starter):
-type idle talk with the right/left leg hanging over the control yoke?

I'm pretty certain no pilots will have their leg hanging over the yoke, that would disengage the autopilot, or at least put it into CWS mode. That is a funny image though.

[Edited 2006-01-23 01:03:17]

User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4928 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting Seanp11 (Reply 2):
I think nowadays pilots are entirely about the business when climbing/descending through 10000 feet.

For the most part, this is the way flight crews operate, but it also depends on corporate culture and professionalism (or lack thereof). I've flown with "professional" pilots whose carefree, casual attitude was rather disturbing. Luckily, that seems to be the exception, rather than the rule.




2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineSeanp11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4921 times:

Unfortunately, it took a number of crashes to prove why the sterile cockpit rule is so necessary.

User currently offlineVuelingAirbus From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 113 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4914 times:

Thats the copy of the Airbus FCOM (flight crew operating manual)

Quoting FCOM:

Sterile cockpit rule:

Below 10 000 feet, any non-essential conversation within the cockpit and between the cabin and cockpit crews should be avoided. Adherence to this policy facilitates effective crew communication, as well as communication of emergency or safety-related information by cabin crew.

pretty clear instructions...


User currently offlineTimePilot From Switzerland, joined Sep 2005, 296 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4820 times:

Okay, so from the time the plane gets onto the active until it's at 10,000' it's all business then?

What about landing? Is that the same situation just reversed?


User currently offlineTimePilot From Switzerland, joined Sep 2005, 296 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4816 times:

Also I ask because I have a friend who used to work for the city subway system. In Japan the rail systems are very rigid in their rules and regulations, and by outside appearances it would seem that the people aren't even allowed to smile.

Well, he's told me stories of everything from people having to go to the bathroom at inopportune times, to leaving a station so fast that the conductor got left behind, to hanging their feet hanging off the controls/out the window!  Wow!

Obviously safety-wise driving a train and flying an aircraft are totally different, but I thought there's be some interesting anecdotes like that from pilots.


User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4800 times:

Quoting TimePilot (Reply 6):
What about landing? Is that the same situation just reversed?

If the aircraft is below 10,000 feet, the cockpit is sterle. Doesn't matter if it's departing or arriving. The only talk that may be conducted is operation specific like checklists and whatnot.



DMI
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4795 times:

Quoting TimePilot (Thread starter):
Do you have to concentrate

Follow the checklist.

No unnecessary talk below 10'000ft.Above it depends on the Individuals concerned  Smile

Rules are for a purpose.Follow them.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineBri2k1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 988 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4745 times:

Quoting Seanp11 (Reply 2):
The sterile cockpit is not just an airline rule, but it is a FAA regulation.

FAR 121.542 and 135.100, enacted in 1981, to be exact. But, according to the Aviation Safety Reporting System (ASRS), they're not always followed. It surprises me, because everything that's said is recorded. Sure, it's probably erased, if there's no incident. But, it's just not worth it.

http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/directline_issues/dl4_sterile.htm



Position and hold
User currently offlineWing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1573 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4738 times:

Landings and take offs-like everything in flying- becomes a second nature to a veteran pilot.You type your computer everyday on your office and I land 200 people passenger jet on a gusty, windy, wet runway.It becomes a part of the routine but landing on a runway like this never looses its excitement.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/WING321/DSC00241.jpg


Big jets can take everything but unseriousness. It may be compared to riding a rodeo horse.When you hang on it you can ride it but it waits your weakest moment,tiniest mistake to push you down to the ground.

Therefore pilot should be always alert,focused and keep eyes wide open during the critical phases of the flight and believe me there is always plenty of time to discuss your plans to Disneyland during the long boring cruise phase.

Best Regards.WING

[Edited 2006-01-23 12:30:50]

[Edited 2006-01-23 12:31:28]


Widen your world
User currently offlineWing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1573 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4467 times:

Quoting Oe-LDA (Reply 12):
I am totally missing basics and clueless about airline flying!

For the first time I find something to agree with you.If you don't mind me asking, how old are you?



Widen your world
User currently offlineOE-LDA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4462 times:

Quoting Wing (Reply 13):
If you don't mind me asking, how old are you?

Let me put it that way: I have seen Istanbul without the Bosporus Bridge. But it was no longer called Byzanz.  old 


OE-LDA

[Edited 2006-01-24 21:48:23]

User currently offlineWing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1573 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4430 times:

Its not called Byzanz(or whatever)since 1453 so must be really old.Should It be too much to ask a little bit more maturity on your posts?I am really asking this with all my kindness(no sarcasm or offence of anykind intended)

Best Regards.WING.

ps: I also kindly request you to remove me from your respected list and change your country flag wherever you belong.Thanks in advance.



Widen your world
User currently offlineOE-LDA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4401 times:

Quoting Wing (Reply 15):
change your country flag

WILCO, Oscar Echo Lima Delta Alpha


User currently offlineTimePilot From Switzerland, joined Sep 2005, 296 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4376 times:

Quoting Wing (Reply 11):
Landings and take offs-like everything in flying- becomes a second nature to a veteran pilot.You type your computer everyday on your office and I land 200 people passenger jet on a gusty, windy, wet runway.It becomes a part of the routine ...

As a nervous flyer, I find comfort in that.

I don't have an image of pilots struggling with the controls like some WWII bomber out of control, but there's a level of solace one gains from knowing that other people (specifically the pilots) are relaxed and know exactly what's going on.


User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4354 times:

it depends on what i'm flying and who i'm flying with. there are 2 people that i know, and know very well for that matter, that i won't tell to shut up below 10K. having said that, they also won't bullshit with me if i'm pilot flying. if it's a type i'm not 110% comfortable on i don't want to hear anyting but checklists coming out of the mouth of my right-seater.


"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4333 times:

If I had to guess, I'd say airline pilots are probably just focused and relaxed during takeoff and approach almost to the point of being bored and uninterested, especially since the computer flys most of flight. I would say that the only time their heart rate is even a few beats up is the last few seconds before touchdown as that is where skill comes in.

User currently offlineFutureUALpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2605 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4298 times:

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 18):
If I had to guess, I'd say airline pilots are probably just focused and relaxed during takeoff and approach almost to the point of being bored and uninterested, especially since the computer flys most of flight. I would say that the only time their heart rate is even a few beats up is the last few seconds before touchdown as that is where skill comes in.

I should hope they are most alert during these times as they are the most critical times, when the pilots are busiest and when they have the biggest workload. dont want a bored/uninterested pilot shooting an ILS down to minimums with my family, friends, myself or anybody else aboard. I know when Im flying for the airlines, I wont be like that.



Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4286 times:

The NTSB just realeased the final report on a Jetstream crash at KIRK (Kirksville, Mo) in 2004 that killed 14 of the 16 onboard. One of the primary factors in the crash was determined to be the lack of professionalism from the crew. They were chatting, and over 40 explatives were recorded on the CVR leading right up until they descended below MDA and right into the ground.


DMI
User currently offlineTimePilot From Switzerland, joined Sep 2005, 296 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4148 times:

I wouldn't want someone bored to sleep at the controls either. Someone like Wing perhaps, who seems to enjoy a little challenge to keep his skills up  Wink

User currently offlineTheSorcerer From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 1048 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4081 times:

Does the sterile cockpit rule apply to A/C taxiing?
thanks
Dominic



ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day ago) and read 4079 times:

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 20):
The NTSB just realeased the final report on a Jetstream crash at KIRK (Kirksville, Mo) in 2004 that killed 14 of the 16 onboard. One of the primary factors in the crash was determined to be the lack of professionalism from the crew. They were chatting, and over 40 explatives were recorded on the CVR leading right up until they descended below MDA and right into the ground.

That's just so disgraceful on any job. I get annoyed if the FedEx/Kinko's clerk is talking on the phone with her boyfriend while I wait. Same kind of unprofessionalism, luckily a tad less responsibility. There's no excuse for that kind of thing.

However, some of the blame must rest on the training department.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineFutureUALpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2605 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day ago) and read 4075 times:

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 22):
Does the sterile cockpit rule apply to A/C taxiing?

Yes, anytime the aircraft is in operation below 10,000ft. the sterile cockpit rule is in effect.



Life is better when you surf.
25 Ralgha : No, sterile cockpit does not apply when in cruise below 10,000. Regardless of what anybody thinks, the sterile cockpit rule is probably the second mo
26 Cancidas : sterile cockpit applies when the a/c is inflight. never seen it applied when taxxing.
27 Wing : We can extend the "sterile cockpit" not only as silenced cockpit but more like a no action unrelated to what your role(PF or PM)is at the present time
28 GoBoeing : At least one major US airline includes taxiing as a time when the cockpit must be sterile. As Ralgha said, whether or not this is obeyed at all times
29 Wing : Exactly and also is at the top of the list where the most aviation accidents occur.
30 Starlionblue : Joke in bad taste coming up: In fact, all aviation accidents involve a ground impact.
31 Post contains images 2H4 : I can think of one particular airplane that crashed and never touched the ground. Actually, you of all of us should know about it. 2H4
32 Starlionblue : I should know? Hmmm... I'll have to think about that one. Well I'll amend that and say "ground or water impact". And in the end of course the sea bot
33 Post contains images 2H4 : The one I have in mind never impacted the ground, and yet never impacted any body of water. It did crash, though, and the pilot lived. You're gonna h
34 Post contains images 2H4 : Starlion, I just thought of an entire category of crashes that also never touched the ground or any body of water, but I would expect you to be parti
35 Seanp11 : Is it an mid air collision? Edit: Never mind, the pilot wouldn't survive.[Edited 2006-01-27 22:10:54]
36 2H4 : No, those would eventually come to rest either on the ground or at the bottom of a body of water. 2H4
37 Starlionblue : Building collision? ARGH!
38 Post contains images 2H4 : No, although if the aircraft were to somehow become lodged in the building, I suppose it could qualify. Anyway, it'll come to you....and then you'll
39 Wing : I personally met the pilot who actually bounced on the water and kept on flying during a low flying exercise on a T-37military trainer.Interestingly t
40 Post contains images 2H4 : Reminds me of the video of a guy....I want to say he was in a Super Cub, but I'm not sure....who locked his brakes and surfed along the surface of a
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