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A340-500 Frames And Wing Difference Over A343?  
User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3631 times:

Hi guys,

Where did the A340-500 recieved it's 6 frame increase over the A340-300?
Are they placed in the front and rear section or just at one section of the plane?


Also on the wings,
the chord increase, the increased wingtip where are they made over the A340-300 wing, the dimensions of them and what are the differences on the wingbox?

Any help, detailed info and discussion is highly appreciated!
I need this info to convert an 1/144 A343 model kit into an A345.
I found a lot of info except the exact parameters on dimensions.

you can follow the development in the aviation hobby section of this very special custom model kit.

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17015 posts, RR: 67
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3625 times:

Quoting SWISSER (Thread starter):

Where did the A340-500 recieved it's 6 frame increase over the A340-300?
Are they placed in the front and rear section or just at one section of the plane?

IIRC in front and behind.

Quoting SWISSER (Thread starter):
Also on the wings,
the chord increase, the increased wingtip where are they made over the A340-300 wing, the dimensions of them and what are the differences on the wingbox?

The change is in the form of a tapered wing insert. Both span and chord were increased with the addition of a triangular section (a very elongated triangular section) that starts at the fuse and extends outwards. That way fuel capacity was significantly increased, as well as wing area (and thus lift capacity).

I don't have the dimensions I'm afraid.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3610 times:

Thanks Starlion!

It's already very usefull!
I know the sweep is different on 345, and I have numbers of that so that can be calculated!

There is also some discussion on the wingtip,
is the tip itself extended or is the root of the wing extended?


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17015 posts, RR: 67
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3598 times:

Quoting SWISSER (Reply 2):
There is also some discussion on the wingtip,
is the tip itself extended or is the root of the wing extended?

The extension runs from the fuselage to somewhere far out on the span, not near the tip. Imagine the wing is a piece of meat and that that you take the wing and make a cut in the edge that touches the fuselage. The cut goes from that edge directly towards the tip. You cut about 2/3 of the way to the tip, then spread the lobes apart and insert a big triangular wedge.

So you see, it's neither really a root insert nor a tip extension. As I said, it's a tapered wing insert. Tapered because the insert is thick at the root and thins as it goes towards the tip.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineMolykote From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1340 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3578 times:

Quoting SWISSER (Thread starter):
Any help, detailed info and discussion is highly appreciated!
I need this info to convert an 1/144 A343 model kit into an A345.
I found a lot of info except the exact parameters on dimensions.

Hopefully you remove those CFMs and replace with Trents.



Speedtape - The asprin of aviation!
User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3489 times:

Quoting Molykote (Reply 4):
Hopefully you remove those CFMs and replace with Trents.

That would indeed be funny if you install the CFM's after doing that much work on the wing!
Anyway you can follow the model discussion in the aviation hobby section!
it's called 1/144 A345 Emirates

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 3):
The extension runs from the fuselage to somewhere far out on the span, not near the tip. Imagine the wing is a piece of meat and that that you take the wing and make a cut in the edge that touches the fuselage. The cut goes from that edge directly towards the tip. You cut about 2/3 of the way to the tip, then spread the lobes apart and insert a big triangular wedge.

So you see, it's neither really a root insert nor a tip extension. As I said, it's a tapered wing insert. Tapered because the insert is thick at the root and thins as it goes towards the tip.

Will be difficult to reconfigure,
but I will give it a try!


User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3483 times:

So Starlionblue,
I made a quick drawing of what I understood out of it,
the red part is the triangel you described, please note that the picture is not completely ok, the sweep etc. are not displayed.



User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17015 posts, RR: 67
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3452 times:

Sorry if I wasn't clear. It's almost right, but the apex of the triangle should be towards the tip. That is, you need to turn the red part 180 degrees. And it's not quite that regular or centered but you get the idea.


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3377 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 7):
Sorry if I wasn't clear. It's almost right, but the apex of the triangle should be towards the tip. That is, you need to turn the red part 180 degrees. And it's not quite that regular or centered but you get the idea.

I figured it out Starlion!
With a tiny bit of help from a manufacterers manual of Airbus!
The spoiler section with mechanism is exactly the same as the A343 wing,
(no tank section on the front of the wing)
that part is then sweeped to 31.6 degrees and the aft part is placed across the fuselage to have a 90° fit, this will increase the overall span to 1.6m on each wing and indeed will give an open triangel place you explained that gives the extra chord.
The outboard engine is also placed 1 meter more inboard that probably gives that look that the wingtip is extended.
In fact I will create the wing out of the model tonight!

I now still need to investigate where the frames of the fuselage are placed exactly.
i believe a frame can also be identified as a window section?
so it would mean 3 windows more before the wing and 3 aft the wing.

I invite you certainly to follow up the little project in the hobby section starlion!
I will regularly update it with pictures!


User currently offlineKBGRbillT From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3280 times:

Just curious, are the fueling single point hookups on the A345 & A346 located at the same distance from the aircraft centerline as they are on the A342 & A343 (approx. 12.6 meters)?

Thanks


User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3218 times:

Let me check that for you!
According to the manual;
12.6m on A343

The A345-6
B. Refuel/Defuel couplings
– refuel/defuel coupling, left
(Access door 522 HB)
– refuel/defuel coupling, right
(Access door 622 HB)

also located at 12.6m


User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3216 times:

Quoting SWISSER (Reply 8):
The outboard engine is also placed 1 meter more inboard that probably gives that look that the wingtip is extended.
In fact I will create the wing out of the model tonight!

I need to correct myself because it's nonsense!
The outboard engine on A345/6 is at the same place(rough position on the wing, not from the CL), and the tip is indeed extended!

[Edited 2006-02-02 00:12:29]

User currently offlineKBGRbillT From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3196 times:

Quoting SWISSER (Reply 10):
Let me check that for you!
According to the manual;
12.6m on A343

The A345-6
B. Refuel/Defuel couplings
– refuel/defuel coupling, left
(Access door 522 HB)
– refuel/defuel coupling, right
(Access door 622 HB)

also located at 12.6m

Thanks for the help SWISSER. I have no technical reference material on the A345 or A346.


User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3183 times:

I have some friends at Belairbus here in brussels (they produce the wing bay for A380 as well as the slats), and they gave me acces to the corporate website of Airbus!
(and yes, most of the A380 rumours are true!)


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