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Seat Pitch?  
User currently offlineJamesbuk From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 3968 posts, RR: 4
Posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3429 times:

HI guys and gals

I hope this is the right forum to post in but anyway, i often hear people on here saying "yeh there real comfortable they have 38" seat pitch" so what is it? where do you measure the distance? etc
so any ideas guys and gals?

Many thanks

Rgds --James--


You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFredT From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 2185 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3425 times:

The distance between the same point on two seats. It is common to use one of the seat track attachment points as the reference point for the chairs. If one seat has the front left seat track attachment point at station 500 (assuming stations measured in inches) and the seat behind has the front left seat track attachment point at station 531, you have a seat pitch of 31".

Cheers,
Fred



I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 30015 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3413 times:

Quoting Jamesbuk (Thread starter):
where do you measure the distance?

Fred beat me to it.

The other way I gotten the spacing correct when doing re-configs on Metros, would be to count out the number of "spaces" in the coin-track the seats mount to, and then make sure I had the same number of spaces between seats.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31775 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3347 times:

Over here We calculate from the Front seat mount position of the forward seat to the Front mount position of the rear seat.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineMatt72033 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1617 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3343 times:

Quoting FredT (Reply 1):
The distance between the same point on two seats. It is common to use one of the seat track attachment points as the reference point for the chairs. If one seat has the front left seat track attachment point at station 500 (assuming stations measured in inches) and the seat behind has the front left seat track attachment point at station 531, you have a seat pitch of 31".

so that means that seat pitch isnt an accurate measure of legroom.....you could have a seat pitch of 31" and 38" and still have the same legroom because the overall seat size of the 38" pitch is bigger.....if you see what i mean!.........the seats can be mounted 38" from each other, but if the seats bigger, it'll be closer to the one in front!


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3334 times:

The Weight and Balance Manuals traditionally show you to measure from the front face of the front seat leg to the front face of the seat leg of the next seat leg.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineWhiskeyflyer From Ireland, joined May 2002, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3323 times:

on a standard seat rail there are holes, to mount the seat bases. The distance between the mid point of each hole is one inch (so if flying a carrier that has not out the seat rail track covers in place properly, you can count holes, if your are so inclined or bored)

User currently offlineFredT From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 2185 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3287 times:

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 4):
the seats can be mounted 38" from each other, but if the seats bigger, it'll be closer to the one in front!

Correct, but as it is the distance between the the front of your seat back to the seat back in front of you that matters, when it comes to the crucial leg room, it is really only the thickness of the seat backs which has any effect. That does not tend to vary much.

There was that Italian (?) seat manufacturer which tried to launch mesh style seats though. That would have added an inch or two of leg room for the same pitch! Nice IMO, I'm 6' and will never fly long-haul (or anywhere at all, preferably) in an aircraft configured to 29" pitch.

Cheers,
Fred



I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
User currently offlineJamesbuk From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 3968 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3285 times:

HI guys and gals


Thanks so much for clearing that one up for me but some of you are saying its seat back to seat back and some are saying its the runners so does it matter or is there a definite correct answer?

Rgds --James--



You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
User currently offlineMatt72033 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1617 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3282 times:

Quoting FredT (Reply 7):
I'm 6' and will never fly long-haul (or anywhere at all, preferably) in an aircraft configured to 29" pitch.

knowhow you feel there! i'm 6ft4 and 38" pitch is just about comfertable! lol i flew BA economy from LHR to DFW not so long ago! that was hell!


User currently offlineFredT From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 2185 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3273 times:

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 8):
Thanks so much for clearing that one up for me but some of you are saying its seat back to seat back and some are saying its the runners so does it matter or is there a definite correct answer?

If you read again, I think you will find that "some people" include me in both cases, and that there is actually no conflict at all between the statements.  Smile



I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
User currently offlineTu114 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3273 times:

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 8):
Thanks so much for clearing that one up for me but some of you are saying its seat back to seat back and some are saying its the runners so does it matter or is there a definite correct answer?

It's irrelevant. Assuming the two seats are identical then the distance between the same point on each seat will be the same.


User currently onlineJetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2602 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3267 times:

Quoting FredT (Reply 7):
Correct, but as it is the distance between the the front of your seat back to the seat back in front of you that matters, when it comes to the crucial leg room, it is really only the thickness of the seat backs which has any effect. That does not tend to vary much.

On charter airlines you'll find you have a much thinner, harder seat so they give you just enough legroom on minimal pitch. Also the seats are narrower, so you might get 2-4-2 seating on a 767. One reason I would never fly long haul on an inclusive tour airline. I'd prefer to pay more and fly scheduled. I flew from the UK to Turkey on holiday in an Excel 767 last year, four hours jammed into a tiny, hard seat. Awful. And the same to look forward to on the way back.  boxedin 

Just as important is how high the bottom of the seat in front of you is, and whether there is any IFE equipment there. That affects whether you can stretch your legs out. If there is a footrest fitted to the seat in front it will actually make this worse. Also putting anything in the seat pocket will limit your legroom.



The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
User currently offlineJamesbuk From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 3968 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3256 times:

Quoting Tu114 (Reply 11):
It's irrelevant. Assuming the two seats are identical then the distance between the same point on each seat will be the same.

Lol i realised that a while after i had posted and i personally classed my self a plonker.

Quoting FredT (Reply 10):
FredT


I agree with you now that i have gone back and read the posts again and drew a lil diagram to help my inferior brain understand.

Rgds --James--



You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3213 times:

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 8):
Thanks so much for clearing that one up for me but some of you are saying its seat back to seat back and some are saying its the runners so does it matter or is there a definite correct answer?

All I can tell you is what is in the manuals.. not a guess but fact. Seat leg to seat leg.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31775 posts, RR: 55
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3193 times:

A partially related question.Is the Dimensions of Seats build for a particular class of a particular model Aircraft standard or can it vary.
What Im trying to say Does the Pitch being similiar but the Seat base vary.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinemusang From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 901 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (2 weeks 4 days 9 hours 15 minutes ago) and read 1096 times:

Quoting Whiskeyflyer (Reply 6):
The distance between the mid point of each hole is one inch

About the "coin track" into which the seats fit -

am I correct in thinking (1) the holes are universally at 1 inch spacing, as an industry standard? And (2) The seat therefore has to positioned at a multiple of 1 inch spacing variation, i.e. fractions of an inch are not possible?

Would this mean that in for example a 30 row cabin with 31 inch pitch, all the rows would have to be placed one inch closer in order to create enough space to insert an extra row, and they'd then all be 30 inch pitch?

I agree with FredT, base of spine position to ahead of the knee is a more helpful and relevant measure of seat space.

Regards - musang


User currently offlineCipango From Ireland, joined Jul 2009, 1147 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 weeks 4 days 23 minutes ago) and read 948 times:

Quoting musang (Reply 16):
About the "coin track" into which the seats fit -

am I correct in thinking (1) the holes are universally at 1 inch spacing, as an industry standard? And (2) The seat therefore has to positioned at a multiple of 1 inch spacing variation, i.e. fractions of an inch are not possible?

Would this mean that in for example a 30 row cabin with 31 inch pitch, all the rows would have to be placed one inch closer in order to create enough space to insert an extra row, and they'd then all be 30 inch pitch?

I agree with FredT, base of spine position to ahead of the knee is a more helpful and relevant measure of seat space.

Regards - musang

Talk about resurrecting a very old thread!



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User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26842 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (2 weeks 3 days 23 hours 22 minutes ago) and read 925 times:

Quoting Cipango (Reply 17):
Talk about resurrecting a very old thread!

I often wonder how people even find a 7-year-old thread like this to resurrect it.

In any case, as already mentioned, seat pitch and legroom are not the same thing. You can reduce seat pitch and increse legroom if the new seats have thinner seat backs, which is very common these days.

KLM replaced the old bulky seats on their Fokker 70s a year or two ago with new lightweight seats with slightly less pitch (except in the forward few rows used for their European business class product where I think the pitch increased slightly). Even the rows with the reduced pitch have noticeably more legroom than with the old seats. The difference is quite surprising. The old seats were more comfortable but your knees were almost jammed into the seatback in front which isn't the case with the new seats where there's plenty of room.


User currently offlinerwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2602 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 weeks 3 days 19 hours 5 minutes ago) and read 876 times:
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Quoting musang (Reply 16):
am I correct in thinking (1) the holes are universally at 1 inch spacing, as an industry standard? And (2) The seat therefore has to positioned at a multiple of 1 inch spacing variation, i.e. fractions of an inch are not possible?

That's still an interesting question. The seat track is pretty fixed (and you'd be hard pressed to make the standard holes closer together without running out of material, and replacing it would probably be a pretty big undertaking, certification-wise), but the seat is usually attached to that rail with a clip of sorts. Other (non-aircraft) applications with similar systems often have "offset" sized clips that allow you to mount something at fractional positions, or simply have several possible attachment points on the connecting piece (in this case this would be on the seat).

If it's possible on aircraft, I have no idea.


User currently offlinelarshjort From Denmark, joined Dec 2007, 1698 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 weeks 3 days 17 hours 26 minutes ago) and read 852 times:

The seats a have worked with can only sit in one position, so every change has to be in 1 inch increments.
I have some old Lufthansa business seats at home. They are installed by in serting the legs in the seat rail, the seat is then moved forward half a hole and then is locked in place by a bracket on the aft legs. To move/remove the seats is just 2 small screws.

This is how all aircraft seats I have worked with are installed. It is quick to install and remove the seats but you can only do it at 1 inch increments

http://www.ancra.com/aircraft/images/header_fittings.jpg

/Lars



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User currently offlinemusang From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 901 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (2 weeks 3 days 15 hours 35 minutes ago) and read 836 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):
I often wonder how people even find a 7-year-old thread like this to resurrect it.

Search function! If I had started a new thread, someone would have said "already covered - try the search function….".

Anyway, thanks for replies, got exactly the info I wanted.

Regards - musang


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