Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Normal Speed?  
User currently offlineSuperslushy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (13 years 8 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 994 times:

This is a very simple question for most of you guys out there. When listening to the ATC. In my case, Atlanta Center, I often hear controllers clear an aircraft up to an altitude, for this sake, we'll say FL230. And when they do they'll say maintain "normal speed" up to this atitude. What exactly is the normal speed. I realize that it varies for each aircraft, but often times, they are cleared for normal speed when still at 6 or 7 thousand feet. Are aircraft still required to stay at the 250K limit until they get up to 10,000 feet, and then speed up?

Thanx,
Chris

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4229 posts, RR: 37
Reply 1, posted (13 years 8 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 934 times:

Ah good old Atlanta center, talked to them many many times... which frequency are you listening in on? Normal speed just means their normal unresticted climb speed w/o any speed limits, whether maintaining above or below a certain speed. ATC is allowed to remove that 250 knot speed limit, so i would assume that restriction is lifted when he says that.

I dont have my AIM handy, so i cannot confirm this... i fly airplanes whos redline speeds are far below 250, so i have no experience at this, hehe.



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineLatechpilot From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (13 years 8 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 926 times:

"Normal speed" is usually given to let the pilots know that a prior speed restriction that was given is no longer needed. Speed restrictions are issued to help separate aircraft arriving or departing a terminal area. Before blasting through 250 knots below 10,000, i'd sure ask the controller if he is giving me permission with the "normal speed" clearance.

User currently offlineSuperslushy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (13 years 8 months 3 days ago) and read 908 times:

Well, I've got so many frequencies plugged into my scanner. Most of Atlanta's frequencies that I pick up I use to follow arriving/departing planes out of the CLT Class B airspace.

Here's a few:
133.15
134.55
135.35
128.8
119.57


User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2334 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (13 years 8 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 898 times:

Well I do not want ton argue with a pilot, but what springs into mind when reading this is the folowing:

Clearence to activate or follow FMC calculated or pre-programmed speeds.

To leave SID alt. restriction and climb with the calculated airspeed, unique to each acfts behavior.

I do not know which one is the right one, but I know that flight plans and speed settings are known to the tower, so therefor I would think that their filed alt. AND speeds as set on the FMC are given aswell.

OR/AND it could just mean that "normal" is a kind of allowing other speeds, than what is set as a ristriction in the SID papers...

If I'am way off then I have learned something:O)

JYou know I never read or answered these technical questions, not even looked in this discussion room, but having done it, I realize how much I know, crazy hobby:O)

Well I just wanna say that I totally agree with the replies you got. I would have said the same thing.

An additional comment I have is to the fact that it was snowing!!! I s it possible that icing conditions or snow clutter could have disengaged or faulted the APU, as it seems as if it wasn't scheduled or expected by the pilots?!!

Another thing is to a remark by ??? em... In his reply, he wrote that the APU is Diesel driven... As is the case in the 767 I know for sure, is that the APU is fueled from the left wing tank..

Thanx for asking nice questions that I have just the slightest chance of answering:O)
Hope we helped buddy:O)



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2334 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (13 years 8 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 888 times:

Just ignore the last thing, which was accidantally pasted from another reply:O)

Sorry for the mess!!!!



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineRJ From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 198 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (13 years 8 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 896 times:

Normal speed refers to preplaned climbout speed issued in the Operation Mode section of the dispatch release. This section contains specific climb, cruise and descent profiles which are used in planning the flight. Altitude selection, fuel requirements and payload have been predicated upon the flight crew following these profiles. They are for the CRJ:

Normal Climb 0.70 Mach (250KIAS)
Normal Climb 0.74 Mach (250/290KIAS)
Normal Climb 0.77 Mach (250/320KIAS)

The (250/290KIAS) refers to 250KIAS under 10,000' and 290KIAS above 10,000.' This is done to comply with the FAR's. THE TERM "NORMAL SPEED" DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO GO FASTER THAN 250KTS. UNDER 10,000.' (as a side note, Houston has a waiver that if cleared, will allow you to go faster than 250 under 10,000.' The only other place that I've done 250 under 10k is on the MRLIN 4 arrival. The arrival takes you over 12nm off shore. Therefore, you are in international airspace and the 250 under 10k rule does not apply. Controllers there routinly encourage a/c to keep their speed above 250 under 10k! But be carefull of a/c limitations. The EMB-120 had a limitation of 250kts max under 8,000.' This was for bird strike protection)

We have thrust settings that are used depending on which profile we are issued. The Normal Climb Thrust settings for the specified airspeed can be determined from a table for various ambient temperatures and pressure altitudes. The FMS also contains this data, but we are still required to use the charts. And we don't have autothrottles either.

I hope this helps,

Happy flying!

RJ (on strike)




User currently offlineMax Power From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (13 years 8 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 872 times:

Are you telling this person that ATC is allowed to remove the 250 Kt. speed limit? If so you are in error. ATC cannot and will not do that below 10,000' I hope perhaps you were talking about a 250 restriction above 10??

User currently offlineRJ From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 198 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (13 years 8 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 870 times:

Uh, Max Power

Where in my post are you reading that? I clearly stated in BOLD print that you are not to exceed 250kts. under 10,000' Not even if you are given the term "resume normal speed". As far as Houston goes, here is a link for you:

http://www.ainonline.com/weeklynews/AIN_weeklynews.html#story5

I indeed have been issued the clearance to exceed 250kts in Houston's Class B airspace under 10,000'

I hope this clears up any confusion.

Happy flying!

RJ (on strike)


User currently offlineMax Power From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 8 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 862 times:

Mr. RJ, NO I was not refering to your post. I was only making a comment on the post byXFSUGIMPlb41x. His first reply to this post at the top. I am aware of the Houston speed limits and their "test" in that area alone. Not all airspace for sure. Just wanted to let all those that just fly thier lap tops you better not exceed 250 blo 10. I wish you guys all the luck possible, hope its settled real soon in your favor and your back in the saddle soon. Regards, Max

User currently offlineRJ From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 198 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (13 years 8 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 858 times:

Max,

Thanks for the kind words and encouragement. We appreciate all of the support that so many in the aviation community have given us. There is a saying around here that states: "Whatever it takes, for as long as it takes"

Thanks,

RJ (still on strike)


User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4229 posts, RR: 37
Reply 11, posted (13 years 8 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 849 times:

Hey Max, Do you ever read the entire posts or just the parts you want to read? Keep in mind i said i do not have the FAR/AIM in front of me and cannot confirm this. I have been takin finals and did not have the FAR handy. Don't be such an asshole. So, to clarify this, here goes:

FAR Part 91.117

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed greater than 250 kts.

(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet AGL within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 kts. This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.

(c) No person my operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 kts.

(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.


You are right, ATC cannot authorize you to break the 250 speed limit w/o permision from the administrator. Glad we could finally clear this up.. the regs tend to talk for themselves.
And by the way... i hate flight sim with a passion, and also dont own a laptop. Spanks for asking though.



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineSuperslushy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (13 years 8 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 840 times:

Well, I'm glad we were able to get this little discussion started. In about half my topics, the debate usually turns into real world vs. Flight Sim "hotshots". I for one love the sim, but in no way think it can match the knowledge gained in the real world. Thanks anyways, Chris

By the way, I gotta learn all these regulations, anyone know the closest place to pick up the FAR manual or an AIM? I live in Charlotte, NC


User currently offlineMax Power From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (13 years 8 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 844 times:

Im going to rest easier tonight knowing you feel better. Question for you is, why do you post a reply knowing you "cannot confirm this" and just post upon gossip? I don't see the benefit of such a reply? Oh, your welcome for the spanks! You deserved them.  Smile

User currently offlineRJ From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 198 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (13 years 8 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 835 times:

Superslushy,

I would suggest look in the yellow pages for a flight school in your area. Most flight schools will sell that material. If you don't want to do that, you can get all of the material online via the FAA. Go to:

http://faa.gov/atpubs

Click on Aeronautical Information Manual for the AIM.
I hope this helps.
Happy Flying

RJ (on strike)


User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4229 posts, RR: 37
Reply 15, posted (13 years 8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 835 times:

haha, hey everyone deserves a spanking everyonce in a while. I posted that 'gossip" because it is educated gossip and I know quite a bit about the regs and such. Not to mention i get out and fly a whole lot and have quite a few friends that are airline pilots. I dont get a chance to fly jets very much though unfortunately. My company does own a couple CJ1's, King Air 200's and others.... when i get an official position (upon obtaining my CFI/II in late June) i will be flying the jet right seat a whole lot more. Right now i mostly get to run the Saratoga's and dead legs in the archers to pick up pilots. Not exactly the fastest planes around. Peace and humptiness.


Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineSuperslushy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (13 years 8 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 826 times:

Thanks RJ. By the way, I noticed that you're on strike. Without getting into detail, are you part of the whole Delta - Comair "thing"?

Chris


User currently offlineRJ From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 198 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (13 years 8 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 821 times:

Superslushy,

yes.

RJ (on strike)


Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Normal Speed?
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
A319 Cruise Speed: Is 620mph Normal? posted Wed May 17 2006 12:01:39 by LVTMB
Can A "normal" Airliner Go At Supersonic Speed posted Sat Nov 16 2002 13:39:57 by F.pier
"Normal" Speed? posted Thu Aug 16 2001 18:37:42 by UA752
Stall Speed Of An Airliner In Cruise? posted Wed May 20 2009 06:24:52 by Ps76
Could Concorde Turn At Full Speed? posted Sun Jan 25 2009 05:48:18 by A380900
Landing Speed: Avro And ERJ posted Wed Jan 7 2009 22:03:38 by HT
EMB-120 Climbrate/Speed posted Sun Jan 4 2009 20:24:59 by Parton87
757 Engine Fan Blade Speed posted Sat Dec 27 2008 15:09:08 by Iowaman
Airbus Pilots Only: Going Below F And S Speed posted Thu Nov 20 2008 02:24:16 by Airbus-Insider
Normal Law? Direct Law? Can Someone Explain? posted Tue Nov 18 2008 10:26:45 by Mastropiero

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format