CruzinAltitude From United States of America, joined May 2004, 415 posts, RR: 1 Posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4609 times:
I have a quick question for any Pilots (or people who know way to much about aviation to not be a pilot). . .
As the flight crew advances an airliner down the runway, what is called out just before "V1 Rotate" and what is called out just after "V1 Rotate?"
Seanp11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 290 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4609 times:
"V1" and "Rotate" technically are seperate callouts. :p
Perhaps the callout you are talking about is the one for 80 kts. That is when the rudder becomes active.
CruzinAltitude From United States of America, joined May 2004, 415 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4607 times:
Thats true, they are seperate call outs. Im just wondering what is the call out right before, and right after.
CruzinAltitude From United States of America, joined May 2004, 415 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4600 times:
Onetogo From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 287 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4579 times:
Callouts of "airspeed alive" followed by "80 knots ... V1 ... Rotate (some say 'vee are') ... V2" are pretty much standard on all flight decks from what I've seen.
CruzinAltitude From United States of America, joined May 2004, 415 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4565 times:
Seanp11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 290 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4557 times:
V2 is the minium safe climbout speed. The aircraft can fly after this speed.
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5490 posts, RR: 13 Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4552 times:
V1 = maximum speed that a takeoff may be aborted if an engine is lost.
Vr = speed at which rotation should occur
V2 = minimum flight safety speed. This is the minimum speed that will allow the aircraft to climb out on one engine.
There are many, many other V speeds as well, but that's not the scope of this thread.
[Edited 2006-03-03 03:50:23]
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EssentialPowr From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1820 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4509 times:
The call outs also vary greatly from company to company.
On the 727 and ERJ for ex, V1/Vr were/are typically the same number - unless a V1 reduction is made. This would be due to a contaminated runway, for example, in which an earlier decision speed helps mitigate the probability of executing a rejected take off.
CosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2222 posts, RR: 16 Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4493 times:
Quoting EssentialPowr (Reply 8): The call outs also vary greatly from company to company.
That's true, we just make the 80kt call, V1 and rotate, no V2 call in the MD-11.
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5490 posts, RR: 13 Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4479 times:
Quoting EssentialPowr (Reply 8): The call outs also vary greatly from company to company.
V speeds are figured from performance tables set by the manufacturer. I've never heard of 'airline specific' speeds.
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EssentialPowr From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1820 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4448 times:
Goldenshield, here are 2 examples...
Embraer certifies and flys the ERJ in the landing config at the top of the white arc for an approach speed. Most ERJ operators in the US add 5-10 kts to this value for their ref and target speeds. This varies from airline to airline. Cont EXpress, before the XJT days, was white arc plus 10 for both values (which were separated by 5 kts). About 3 years ago, they went to "white arc" plus 5 kts due to the fact that 5 kts makes a big diff for a transport category a/c in terms of landing distance, which corresponds to revenue. Because these values were published in FAA approved manuals, the new values had to reapproved by the FAA, but are certainly airline specific.
GoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2635 posts, RR: 12 Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4447 times:
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5490 posts, RR: 13 Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4442 times:
Most airlines use Aerodata now anyhow, and since they are FAA approved, it's pretty much irrelevant anymore. :P
Quoting EssentialPowr (Reply 11): 5 kts makes a big diff for a transport category a/c in terms of landing distance, which corresponds to revenue.
5 knots makes a big difference in terms terms of landing distance, which corresponds to SAFETY.
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EssentialPowr From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1820 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4436 times:
The 2nd example is takeoff performance...Boeing never published a comprehensive, reduced thrust takeoff profile for the 727. Why? Because it was fleet specific. NWA had a fleet that consisted of a/c from several manufacturers (Hughes Airwest, Republic, Eastern, etc) with thrust combinations that were too expansive for Boeing to consider. NWA used JT8D-9s, -15s, -17s, and 17 Aprs... and was approved for an Intermix for those engines, meaning an a/c could have 3 different dash types on the same a/c.
If you've followed this so far, then you'll follow the rest. That variation was airline specific, therefore the V speeds were as well. Not a huge difference, but a significant difference...
EssentialPowr From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1820 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4428 times:
Goldenshield,
So now maybe you agree w/ me? What's the biggest gag in the crewroom when the weather's bad?
"How's the weather at XYZ? Doesn't matter...we GOIN' anyhow!!!"
The airline business is based on $$$....the safety part comes from crews, maintenance, dispatch and ATC, among others...
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5490 posts, RR: 13 Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4344 times:
Quoting EssentialPowr (Reply 15): "How's the weather at XYZ? Doesn't matter...we GOIN' anyhow!!!"
That's a new one on me. Usually, it's "What can we break to get out of this trip?"
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CosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2222 posts, RR: 16 Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4289 times:
Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 10): V speeds are figured from performance tables set by the manufacturer. I've never heard of 'airline specific' speeds.
I THINK what the post is referring to is what CALLOUTS do airlines use. This would/ could be airline specific. I can say that here we used to call 80, V1, rotate,positive rate AND V2 in the 727; in the MD-11 we don't call V2 because the FMS is going to guide you to V2+10 with all eng and V2 with an eng. out so it's a superfluous call. For app/ldg there are no airspeed calls(for us) except "Betty's" calls at 500', 50, 40, 30, ..etc.
757dc10fltmech From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 47 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4270 times:
Some callouts I have seen while riding as an observer on the DC10-30:
PIC: "Auto throttles on set take-off thrust."
The FE will then watch the throttles and engines to make sure they are at the proper TO thrust setting per the TRC when it is verified the FE calls out: "thrust set"
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5490 posts, RR: 13 Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4258 times:
Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 17): I THINK what the post is referring to is what CALLOUTS do airlines use.
I think you may be right. It's all a matter of interpretation to what was said.
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EssentialPowr From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1820 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4237 times:
"The call outs also vary greatly from company to company." That was exactly the point I was making from the beginning.
Ralgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6 Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4181 times:
Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 16): Quoting EssentialPowr (Reply 15):
"How's the weather at XYZ? Doesn't matter...we GOIN' anyhow!!!"
That's a new one on me. Usually, it's "What can we break to get out of this trip?"
Golden's right. It's all about getting out of the trip. Unless it's the last day, then it's all about finishing early.
XFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3996 posts, RR: 36 Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4165 times:
We have:
set thrust.... thrust set
80 knots... check
V1
rotate
V2
Positive rate.... gear up
The rest are Flight guidance callouts. Speed mode at V2+10-15, Heading or Nav mode at 400 feet, and the autopilot becomes and option at 600 feet.
Pihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 3588 posts, RR: 72 Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4105 times:
During the takeoff roll it is better to have a quiet cockpit apart from the very important call outs :
Ready to go, the captain announces "Takeoff, V1 is xxx kts"
Once the thrust is set PNF announces "parameters stable"
PF calls out the FMA "Man Flex XX° SRS RWY NAV and A/THR armed "
PNF :
-100Kts (for ASIs xcheck and the signal that from now on we'll only reject for an engine failure or a severe structural damage)
-V1
-Rotate
Contrail designer
25 EssentialPowr: In the US it's typically called a "sterile cockpit." Some airlines use "parameters stable" others use "thrust set, xx.x%N1". The takeoff profile callo
26 PhilSquares: The takeoff callouts are really airline specific. For example, on the 744, the calls vary from a few airlines I've been involved with. For instance, s
27 EssentialPowr: "The takeoff callouts are really airline specific" ...I think we've made that point!
28 PhilSquares: And your point is? Judging by the responses, that point, while written, hasn't been made.
29 EssentialPowr: I respectfully disagree. Did you take the time to read the entire thread? I think it's been rather well made, with examples, and in fact you restated
30 PhilSquares: Like I said, judging by the comments, people either didn't read that or just didn't care. I didn't know this forum was restricted to one correct resp
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