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747-400 Nosewheel Steering  
User currently offlineJetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2546 posts, RR: 24
Posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4153 times:

Is there anything to prevent the nosewheel steering operating with no forward speed on the 747-400? I searched the forum but couldn't find the answer anywhere.


The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFr8Mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5383 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4144 times:

Why would you want to prevent the nose wheel steering from operating? As far as I know, no, the nose gear steering system will operate just fine with the aircraft stopped.


When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineSfomb67 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4041 times:

I don't believe any aircraft requires forward speed to operate the N/G steering. Will it skuff the tires? Probably, a little. I've seen greased sheets under the N/G tires in hangers during steering operation for maint. when the aircraft is not jacked.


Not as easy as originally perceived
User currently offlineVC-10 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 1999, 3700 posts, RR: 34
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4027 times:
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Quoting Jetlagged (Thread starter):
Is there anything to prevent the nosewheel steering operating with no forward speed on the 747-400? I searched the forum but couldn't find the answer anywhere.

No.


User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4010 times:

Had a 727 recently move the nose gear back and forth to dislodge a couple chocks that a newbie put right under the tires and got lodged really good after making the aircraft about 50,000 pounds heavier than when we started with it. That didn't seem to cause any problems.


DMI
User currently offlineBri2k1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 988 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3965 times:

I have actually seen this. It's the normal behavior on MS Flight Simulator.


Position and hold
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13985 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3940 times:

Quoting Bri2k1 (Reply 5):
I have actually seen this. It's the normal behavior on MS Flight Simulator.

 Yeah sure


Jan


User currently offlineSinlock From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1643 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3907 times:

Quoting Jetlagged (Thread starter):
Is there anything to prevent the nosewheel steering operating with no forward speed on the 747-400?

Sure, put the steering by-pass pin in. But then the N/G wouldn't turn at any speed.



My Country can beat up your Country....
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13985 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3832 times:

Or you switch off hydraulics ( I forgot which system was powering the nose gear steering, I think #4 or #2)

Jan


User currently offlineJAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3506 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 4 days ago) and read 3778 times:

Quoting Bri2k1 (Reply 5):

It doesn't turn when the A/C is stopped but who compares FS to real life? lol



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User currently offlineMatt72033 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1617 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3745 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 8):
I think #4 or #2)

think its number 1.....definately sys 1 or 4!

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 4):
Had a 727 recently move the nose gear back and forth to dislodge a couple chocks that a newbie put right under the tires and got lodged really good after making the aircraft about 50,000 pounds heavier than when we started with it. That didn't seem to cause any problems.

we have to be careful when doing our pushbacks! lately the tug crew have become very efficient in chocking the nosewheel whilst they disconnect the tow bar, if you pull out the bypass pin too quickly, before they remove the chock and the nosewheel isn't quite straight, it'll jam up a treat!


User currently offlineBri2k1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 988 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3677 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 6):
Yeah sure



Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 9):
It doesn't turn when the A/C is stopped but who compares FS to real life? lol

Exactly my point.



Position and hold
User currently offlineJetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2546 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3662 times:

Thanks everyone. I knew the 747-200 tiller would turn regardless of speed, and assumed the 747-400 would too, but I couldn't be sure (no -400 data at the site I am at right now). The systems are very similar except for body gear steering arming, which is automatic on the 747-400, manual on the Classic.

Quoting Bri2k1 (Reply 5):
I have actually seen this. It's the normal behavior on MS Flight Simulator.

You are very close to why I asked this. Although I spend my working days around training simulators, one of my hobbies is MS Flightsim (sad but true). A certain FS9 747-400 addon deliberately inhibits nosewheel steering when stationary. I questioned this and was told "it's correct, we checked". I expect they asked a pilot  Wink. (Apologies to the majority, but a few pilots seem to think that just because you shouldn't do something, it can't actually be done!).

A simulator should do what the aircraft does, not what the procedure tells the pilot to do, in case the procedure isn't followed properly.



The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
User currently offlineMatt72033 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1617 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3612 times:

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 10):
think its number 1.....definately sys 1 or 4!

just checked, both nose and body gear steering is on hydraulic system 1


User currently offlineBri2k1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 988 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3543 times:

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 12):
A certain FS9 747-400 addon deliberately inhibits nosewheel steering when stationary.

My current personal copy is version 2004, and this is standard behavior on all included aircraft, including the single-engine Cessnas! I was fortunate enough at one time to have flown all the full-motion simulators in the United fleet, and I can confirm both tiller- and pedal-commanded steering works in the simulators exactly as it does on the real bird. I spent a lot of time trying to powerback a 777 in the simulator; I was never successful though.



Position and hold
User currently offlineJetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2546 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3445 times:

Quoting Bri2k1 (Reply 14):
I spent a lot of time trying to powerback a 777 in the simulator; I was never successful though.

That's typical of simulators of aircraft with big fan engines. Data isn't produced to accurately model reverse thrust with little or no forward speed. There's no real training value in it after all.

In reality things may be different. Allegedly a lightly loaded 747 can in fact power back, but in a simulator it is impossible, unless someone tweaks the reverse thrust data.



The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
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