Okie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 20051 times:
I do not know what is in them.
I was boarding a flight when and overhead bin popped open and hit a gentleman on the head in the row behind me who was just sitting down. It put a pretty good gash in his forehead and he was bleeding quite a bit red blood on a white shirt which made the situation look worse than it was. They sent him up to concourse somewhere to a first aid station even though he was just asking for a "band aid" and being embarrassed. He returned about 20 minutes later and made the flight with a full turbin.
The F/A had a First Aid Kit in her hand but never opened it. I asked her if they did not have a band aid in the kit. She informed me that if they broke the seal then they hold the flight as a broken seal on the first aid kit was a "no go for the flight" and a lot of paper work would need to be filled out.
Kaddyuk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 20044 times:
Airlines by requirement HAVE to have FAK's (First Aid Kits). I've experienced three levels of FAK. Two of the types are legally required by law and the third type is in addition to the requirement to avoid a situation where an aircraft remains AOG due to a lack of FAK's.
The hosties use the general FAK's first. These are replenished every flight with a new FAK. it contains items from Paracetamol to Hayfever tablets, to rubber gloves and basic dressings.
There is also a FAK which is the one required by law. Normally these are only touched if they run short on the general FAK's. Because as mentioned if the seal is broken and the airline is nil-stock... the aircraft can NOT fly.
Then there is a doctors box. This contains some reasonably serious drugs. Its hidden out of sight and is locked. The stuff contained inside should only be adminstered by a doctor. (Stuff like adrenaline). This too is a legal requirement and is a no-go item.
paperwork should be filled out for every incident. However i'm not so sure it is because i've asked for paracetamol on the flight before and not had paperwork filled out.
Bobster2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 20013 times:
I remember a TWA flight when the lady in front of me was begging the F/A for an aspririn, and the F/A absolutely refused. The F/A said the airline once gave somebody an aspirin and then they got sued. So they quit giving anybody aspirin. (The lady ended up getting aspirin from another passenger. As far as I know, she didn't sue the helpful passenger.)
First aid kits are great in theory, until the airline gets sued and they don't use it anymore.
Fr8mech From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 19982 times:
Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 4): First aid kits are great in theory, until the airline gets sued and they don't use it anymore.
Rendering first aid (using the first aid kit) and dispensing drugs (giving a passenger an aspirin) are two entirely different things. Most states' good samaritin laws will protect someone who renders first aid in good faith. Those same states take a dim view of anyone with medical training, and if I'm not mistaken, FA's do receive some rudimentary first aid training, dispensing ANY drug that they are not licensed to dispense.
Ask an EMT for an aspirin, you will receive a blunt "no". Beacause an EMT in most ststes is not licensed to diapense any drug, but oxygen. Yes, oxygen is a drug in the strictest sense of the word.
Lincoln From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 19979 times:
Appendix A to Part 121 of Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR 121) includes the specific requirements for US carriers:
For 0-50 seats, one kit is required, 51-150 two kits are required, 151-250 requires three, and more than 250 requries 4 kits.
That kit must include, at a minimum:
16 Adhesive bandage compresses, 1-inch
20 Antiseptic swabs
10 Ammonia inhalants
8 Bandage compresses, 4-inch
5 Triangular bandage compresses, 40-inch
1 Arm splint, noninflatable
1 Leg splint, noninflatable
4 Roller bandage, 4-inch
2 Adhesive tape, 1-inch standard roll
1 Bandage scissors
Also, at least one approved medical kit must be on board that includes, at a minimum:
3 Airways, oropharyngeal (3 sizes): 1 pediatric, 1 small adult, 1 large adult or equivalent.
Self-inflating manual resuscitation device with 3 masks (1 pediatric, 1 small adult, 1 large adult or equivalent).
CPR mask (3 sizes), 1 pediatric, 1 small adult, 1 large adult, or equivalent.
1 IV Admin Set: Tubing w/ 2 Y connectors
2 Alcohol sponges
1 Adhesive tape, 1-inch standard roll adhesive.
1 pair Tape scissors
1 Saline solution, 500 cc
1 pair Protective nonpermeable gloves or equivalent
6 Needles (2-18 ga., 2-20 ga., 2-22 ga., or sizes necessary to administer required medications).
4 Syringes (1-5 cc, 2-10 cc, or sizes necessary to administer required medications).
4 Analgesic, non-narcotic, tablets, 325 mg
4 Antihistamine tablets, 25 mg
2 Antihistamine injectable, 50 mg, (single dose ampule or equivalent).
2 Atropine, 0.5 mg, 5 cc (single dose ampule or equivalent).
4 Aspirin tablets, 325 mg
1 Bronchodilator, inhaled (metered dose inhaler or equivalent).
1 Dextrose, 50%/50 cc injectable, (single dose ampule or equivalent).
2 Epinephrine 1:1000, 1 cc, injectable, (single dose ampule or equivalent).
2 Epinephrine 1:10,000, 2 cc, injectable, (single dose ampule or equivalent).
2 Lidocaine, 5 cc, 20 mg/ml, injectable (single dose ampule or equivalent).
10 Nitroglycerin tablets, 0.4 mg
1 Basic instructions for use of the drugs in the kit.
Also, "At least one approved automated external defibrillator, legally marketed in the United States in accordance with Food and Drug Administration requirements" must be stored in the passenger cabin.
MarkHKG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 19928 times:
Also, keep in mind...
The "first Aid Kit" can be opened and used by the cabin crew. The AED (Defibrillator) and Oxygen can also be used by the cabin crew.
However, the "Emergency Medical Kit" (EMK), or "Enhanced Emergency Medical Kit" (EEMK) or "Doctor's Kit" needs to be opened by a licensed healthcare professional as cabin crew are not permitted to use the items. Some airlines will require the Captain be notified for permission to open the kit as well.
Here are some links to companies that make the medical kit so you can see the set up...
Bobster2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 19847 times:
The law requiring Emergency Medical Kits on airliners also has a "Good Samaritan" provision that protects individuals from legal liability while helping passengers during a medical emergency.
But here's the important part: The so-called "Good Samaritan" provision does not protect the airlines. The airlines can and will be sued. Only the individual airline employers are protected, but the airlines are liable for the behavior of their employees.
Question: A passenger seems to be having a heart attack. There is no doctor on board. Will the flight attendant give the heart attack victim an aspirin, which is what many doctors would recommend?
TheGreatChecko From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 19795 times:
Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 5): Ask an EMT for an aspirin, you will receive a blunt "no". Beacause an EMT in most ststes is not licensed to diapense any drug, but oxygen.
Actually, as a Nationally Registered EMT-B I am trained to give Aspirin, (chew one and swallow one for a heart attack), activated charcoal (the extra nasty black stuff for some poisonings), and assist people with their inhalers and epi-pens. Oh and oxygen
Pulsoximeter is a device which you can easily measure oxigen concentration in the blood. Electronic manometer is a blood pressure gauge easier to handle than the traditional manual one. Does any airline include those latest medical devices in on board medical kit?
MarkHKG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 19775 times:
Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 14): Aspirin, (chew one and swallow one for a heart attack), activated charcoal (the extra nasty black stuff for some poisonings), and assist people with their inhalers and epi-pens.
Careful...while on board an aircraft, you may be trained to do that, but without a standing order from a physician, you're opening yourself up to liability. Most airlines have some sort of medical control they can call (Medaire, for instance) for medical advice so you can talk to an on-line physician and this can act as your standing order.
Quoting Goodday (Reply 15): Pulsoximeter is a device which you can easily measure oxigen concentration in the blood. Electronic manometer is a blood pressure gauge easier to handle than the traditional manual one. Does any airline include those latest medical devices in on board medical kit?
I'm not aware of any carrier carrying a pulse oximeter, but some airlines are certainly very forward-thinking. The problem with these electronic "gadgets" is that they need to be checked pre-flight by the cabin crew (e.g. battery power, calibration, etc.). Electronic BP cuffs and pulse oximeters traditionally don't have an easy way of checking this. (Defibrillators, on the other hand, have "self-test" features and will report errors or problems.) I do know that some carriers have carried portable 3-Lead EKG/ECG units that allow for telemetry to be sent to a physician at a company like Medaire.
Quoting CitationJet (Reply 12): The F/A can't give you an aspirin, but they can use Defibrillator on you. Go figure.
FlyingColours From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 19651 times:
Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 16): Most airlines have some sort of medical control they can call (Medaire, for instance) for medical advice so you can talk to an on-line physician and this can act as your standing order.
Yes and these will give instructions to us and then they can take liability. However we are trained in quite a lot and hopefully we won't have to use that training (like most of it in general).
I am not sure I can go into much detail however,
We carry onboard;
MFK (Mandatory First Aid Kits), Now these are sealed and can be used by us however we need to fill out paperwork and ensure we have above the minimum amount of items left in there. We carry more than 1MFK onboard depending on the size of the aircraft.
FAK (First Aid Kit) - These are carried on by the crew and are the purser's responsibility, they are used pretty much every flight (I used one on my first 757 flight this year). They are stocked with Asprin/Paracetamol etc....
EMK (Emergency Medical Kit), these are also known as "The Doctors Box", they are full of heavy duty equipment that we are not trained in. We can go into these however for 3 items only, other than that its a doctor only.
I recently brought up in training the question of "could we use adrenaline should someone clearly need it, even if the radio doctors said they need it?" and we got a simple flat no - we will be in major trouble for using something we may know how (a lot of nurses become F/A's) but they can only use it if they are still registered and instructed to do so.
We also carry the Defibrillator, we are trained in how to use it and can also use it off the aircraft (say if someone had cardiac arrest at the gate) - actually happened at MAN last year.
The training we go through is rough, we have to go over practical and written exams and watch videos that are way too graphic (Yeah nothing beats watching a childbirth video a few times). We are trained to handle anything from a simple cut (broken armrest) to delivering a baby inflight.
With regards to issuing medicine inflight, it is a simple no-no. What we do is we will take out a "Paracetamol or Medical self administration" form and hand it to the passenger, get them (or their travelling partner) to fill it in then come back with a tray containing a glass of water and one tablet (still in its box and wrapped up - so they can see exactly what we are offering). This is our protection against liable.
Legalities are screwing everything nowadays, a passenger can be having anapylaxic shock and need their epi-pen, we can't inject them with it however (not even aloud to touch it) however a fellow passenger can help them self administer and be exempt under the good samaritan rule.
I hope that sheds a bit of light on what we have here in the UK at least.
CX flyboy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 19586 times:
We have a basic tupperare box in every galley with the basic things like plasters, aspirin, antiseptic stuff, things like that. We then have a doctors kit, which as others have said, only a doctor can use. However, if the seal is broken, we can still fly, with a time restriction in the MEL. There are also first aid kits scattered around the aircraft which again we can fly if they have been used, but with a time restriction.