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Captain's Duties When First Officer Is PF  
User currently offlineOnetogo From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 314 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7284 times:

Quick and simple question: If the first officer is PF (Pilot Flying) and the Captain is PNF (Pilot Not Flying/Monitoring) then the first officer will most likely have a hand on the throttles throughout the approach sequence and landing. My question is, how can the captain possibly manuver his hand (on the left), around the first officers hand on the throttle, to the flap lever which is on the far right hand side of the pedastal? How about landing gear? It seems like in some aircraft, the Captain would literally need to totally lay his body across the pedastal in order to reach the gear lever (right infront of the first officer).

One more question that has come to mind: Are there are actions that the First Officer takes while acting as PNF compared to when the Captain is PNF? How about when the First Officer is PF compared to when the Captain is PF? All duties still the same? Thanks in advance.

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7274 times:

There are some items that are specifically for the captain, some that are specifically for the FO, and some for PF/PNF. In my airplane (the CRJ), the Landing Gear is extended by the PNF.

User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7272 times:

There is no difference between the FO and Captain as far as actual flying. They both do the same thing. All duties are the same. That's why some FOs are bitter about the big difference in pay. And to answer your first question most cockpits are cramped, it's easy to reach out and touch the FO much less the landing gear handle.

User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6582 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7260 times:

Different airlines and different aircraft types have different procedures as to how many of the duties are assigned to PF/PNF regardless of rank.

In my company, the PF does the taxiing and PNF does the walkaround. This is regardless of who is captain or FO, rain or snow.

The things which are assigned for the captain regardless of whether he is PF or PNF are; completing and signing the logbook, checking the validity of the aircraft licences, doing the passenger announcements, acting as PF for an autoland/LWMO.

As for the pay issue, as pilots we tend to get paid for our knowledge and what we are trained to do on that one day where we need to pull our resources together and save the day. The day to day flight where nothing out of the ordinary happens is fairly simple, but the reason we command higher pay than average is for our experience and that one day where we 'earn our pay'. A captain has far more experience than an FO (in general) and thus commands a higher pay. I think that is fair, otherwise what is the point of becomming captain?


User currently offlineWoodreau From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1015 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7242 times:

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 2):
There is no difference between the FO and Captain as far as actual flying. They both do the same thing. All duties are the same. That's why some FOs are bitter about the big difference in pay

Does the FO sign the dispatch release and does the FO have ultimate responsibility for the aircraft? Rhetorical question, because I believe you already know this.

As one captain kind of remarked to me, being an FO means you can almost do just about anything and get away with it - after all it's the captain's ticket. - not exactly true, because in an incident they're going to investigate the crew not just the captain. But the FO isn't ultimately responsible for the aircraft and all onboard.



Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6945 times:

Quoting Onetogo (Thread starter):
Captain is PNF (Pilot Not Flying/Monitoring)

Im not being a smartass, just want to add some more detail seeing as it's our duty as aviators. PNF term is slowly becomming obsolete, it is now called PM - pilot monitoring



The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineFlyingColours From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2315 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6868 times:

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 5):
Im not being a smartass, just want to add some more detail seeing as it's our duty as aviators. PNF term is slowly becomming obsolete, it is now called PM - pilot monitoring

Just to drop in a quick question of my own here, I know that BEA used to have "Monitoring Pilots" (an additional pilot who would observe the flightcrew and help if requested), do airlines do this any more (I haven't seen it done personally).

PNF does seem to imply that he/she does nothing at all but I thought that maybe if PM was still being used at some airlines then the term could get "mashed".

Phil
FlyingColours



Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6792 times:

The main difference between first officer PNF duties and captain PNF duties is that the first officer is far more likely to remember to do his.

This is okay so long as the captain 'buys' on layovers.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineOnetogo From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6736 times:

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 5):
Im not being a smartass, just want to add some more detail seeing as it's our duty as aviators. PNF term is slowly becomming obsolete, it is now called PM - pilot monitoring

No worries at all. I was not aware that the terminology was changing. Thanks for the heads up.


User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6724 times:

sure thing, and you can always count on Slamclick for a wise analysis on what's up with an excellent comical twist...

slamclick, the Frasier crane of a.net  Smile



The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6713 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 9):
slamclick, the Frasier crane of a.net

So who's Niles?  Smile




2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6711 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 10):
So who's Niles?

damn it! good question....help me out!!



The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6699 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 11):
damn it! good question....help me out!!

Hmmm....well, it would have to be a polite, proper, and very intelligent Tech-Opper. Someone who always does the right thing, and is constantly striving to be the top in his field....














...Mel, perhaps?











 Smile




2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16991 posts, RR: 67
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6695 times:

Quoting Onetogo (Thread starter):
My question is, how can the captain possibly manuver his hand (on the left), around the first officers hand on the throttle, to the flap lever which is on the far right hand side of the pedastal? How about landing gear? It seems like in some aircraft, the Captain would literally need to totally lay his body across the pedastal in order to reach the gear lever (right infront of the first officer).

As AirWillie6475 pointed out, most cockpits really aren't that large. A normal sized human can easily reach everything, even on a 747.

I understand some of the military cargo planes have wider cockpits though. Sometimes this will entail duplication of throttles and other controls.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
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