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What 4 Engine Jet Can Start 2 Engines At A Time?  
User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3758 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4974 times:

I believe I seen a Boeing 747 400 start two engines at a time. But what other aircraft can do this. I do not think the 747 classics can even do this and 747 400 or the only quad jet I ever seen start two at a time. I never really pay attention to a A340 at start up and I never seen an A380 in person. So are that any other quad jets that can start up two engine at a time?

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4073 posts, RR: 33
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4940 times:

MH in ARN B744 always start two at a time off the APU
Also MH B777 Trent always start both at once.


User currently offline747LUVR From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4889 times:

Any 777 can start both engines at the same time.

User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5164 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4804 times:

Yes, the A340 starts two at a time.


Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineJoffie From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 821 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4758 times:

Quoting 747LUVR (Reply 2):
Any 777 can start both engines at the same time.

And the question is:

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
What 4 Engine Jet Can Start 2 Engines At A Time?


User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4736 times:

Quoting LongHauler (Reply 3):
Yes, the A340 starts two at a time.

Which series? I have a cockpit video and the -300 series started the engines one at a time.


User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5164 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4686 times:

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 5):
Which series? I have a cockpit video and the -300 series started the engines one at a time.

When I flew the A340, we only had the -300, so I was referring to the -300. By the time the -500s arrived, I was on a different aircraft, so I do not know if the -500 starts two at a time.

It would appear though, that the -300 has the capability, its just up to the particular airline whether it's used.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineSCXmechanic From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 534 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4660 times:

The DC-10 can do this as well...

User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4073 posts, RR: 33
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4637 times:

Quoting SCXmechanic (Reply 7):
The DC-10 can do this as well

Yes, but do you? With a good APU a Tristar can start two at a time, but you need one person watching each start carefully. The modern aircraft have autostart which takes care of hot starts for you.
I used to motor over Tristars two at a time (to cool them down for maint) but never started them.
Does your airline allow you to start two DC10 engines at a time?


User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3758 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4568 times:

I beleive I saw a Contenital Airline DC10-30 going to HNL start two engines at a time.

User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1265 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4539 times:

Quoting 747LUVR (Reply 2):
Any 777 can start both engines at the same time.

I know this is getting back off topic a bit, but isn't this typical for all 777s except those with the GE90-110 and -115B, which require more compressed air?



CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
User currently offlineTimT From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4484 times:

After 8 years of MX on the DC-10, I've never seen an APU on a DC-10 that had the stuff to start 2 engines at once. The AMM calls for 25 PSI minimum for start (if I remember correctly) and every one I've seen just makes it.

User currently offline777WT From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 877 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4460 times:

I was told by my turbine class professor that the 747-400 can start all four engines once with it's current APU, anyone care to confirm that?

User currently offlineFBU 4EVER! From Norway, joined Jan 2001, 998 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4409 times:

In SAS,we start the A340-313X by commencing with nr.1,then at 10% N2 we start nr.2.
When both are at idle and "avail" is annunciated,we start nrs.3 and 4 in the same way.The APU must be running.Also,autostart is used.With manual start,we start them in sequence 1,2,3 and 4.



"Luck and superstition wins all the time"!
User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 728 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4406 times:

Not a commercial jet, but the KC-135R can start 2 at once (with both APU's running).

User currently offlineMatt72033 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1617 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4374 times:

Quoting 777WT (Reply 12):
I was told by my turbine class professor that the 747-400 can start all four engines once with it's current APU, anyone care to confirm that?

i've been told a story when we first took delivery of one of our 400's they decided to try this, the APU generator was shut off so literally all the APU had to worry about was supplying air! apparently it managed it it....just!


i'm not sure on the details of the Vulcan, but i remember seeing a documentary and they said on it that it reguarly used to start all 4 engines at once because speed was neccesary!

does anyone know if they used electric starters or did they have an APU and air start?


User currently offlineSCXmechanic From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 534 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4364 times:

Well TimT, all I can tell you is I've seen it done on more than a few occasions. I don't know where you guys have your APU's overhauled but at the time ours came from UAL at SFO.

Maybe its time you guys find a new vendor! j/k

I wish I knew what dash number APU's they were.. It could have been when I saw it done, it was only on one specific fleet type (-15 vs. -10). This could be the reason.


User currently offlineTimT From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4322 times:

SCX-- it was everyone's fav- NWA..

User currently offlineOkie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3197 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4315 times:

Quoting 777WT (Reply 12):
I was told by my turbine class professor that the 747-400 can start all four engines once with it's current APU, anyone care to confirm that?

Bush was here Oklahoma on 29000 and was broadcast on local TV channel live, it appeared to have started all 4 at once or at least in very quick sequence. I watched the clock on my VCR/DVD player and it was a shade over 3 minutes from door closing (no push back), taxi, to being in the air. Pretty impressive, now if they just figure how to do that at ORD, DEN, and DFW for the rest of us.

Okie


User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4287 times:

The A346 (and also A345 logic might suggest) can start more than one engine at a time. I doubt you'd get all four lit at once, but you might get away with 3.

The A343 is the same and can start more than one at a time as well.

I always leave it to the captains discretion as to whether he wants to light more than one engine at once.



Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineScxmechanic From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 534 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4250 times:

Quoting TimT (Reply 17):
SCX-- it was everyone's fav- NWA

So what's this supposed to mean? Just curious...


User currently offlineAriis From Poland, joined Sep 2004, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4225 times:

Let me go further: can B747 or A340 start all four engines at once? And if not, why is that?

FAO



FAO - Flight Activities Officer
User currently offlineFBU 4EVER! From Norway, joined Jan 2001, 998 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4208 times:

Vulcans and B-52's can start all engines simutaneously.They use a cartridge start system,not electric or pneumatics (APU).
On the B-52,the alert crew would push a button at the crew entrance door to commence start sequence and when reaching their crew positions,the engines would all be running.Cartridges create a lot of acrid smoke,though!



"Luck and superstition wins all the time"!
User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4073 posts, RR: 33
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4208 times:

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 15):
'm not sure on the details of the Vulcan, but i remember seeing a documentary and they said on it that it reguarly used to start all 4 engines at once because speed was neccesary!

does anyone know if they used electric starters or did they have an APU and air start?

I ve been waiting for an expert to answer but
The Vulcan had electric starters. All aircraft did in those days. But it could start all engines at once when on QRA so, I expect it had a cartridge starter as well, where an explosive charge starts the engine, so you could set all 4 off at once.
A question. The Avon on the Caravelle and Comet had electric start as did the Tyne on the Vanguard. The JT8D had an air starter. When did air starters take over from electric?


User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4073 posts, RR: 33
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4206 times:

Quoting Ariis (Reply 21):
Let me go further: can B747 or A340 start all four engines at once? And if not, why is that

NO. There is not enough mass flow of air from the APU. If you opened all four start valves at once the pressure drop would be too much, and all four engines would rotate too slowly to achieve a start

I expect that the Air Force One B747s are modified to start all at once. An easy way to do this is build a large air tank into the freight bay, which could hlod sufficient compressed air to start all four. Perhaps someone knows how they do it.


25 777WT : I think one engine is running the whole time while on the ground parked when the president travels, for an quick departure if needed, this was read o
26 TristarSteve : Sounds like a good idea. The APU on the old B742 was not the most reliable. I wonder why they dont try and fit a B777 APU instead. That would save th
27 Okie : That would make sense, as I only had the view of what the camera was showing. The door closed, the camera panned to #1 and within a few seconds there
28 KC135TopBoom : The USAF VC-25s have duel APUs that allow all 4 engines to start at the same time. I believe that KC135R already mentioned the KC-135R can start two
29 TristarSteve : The Concorde had no APU. To start the engines you needed an air starter for each side of the aircraft. So you could start one engine on each side at
30 KC135TopBoom : That must be how it was done, thanks.
31 LongHauler : Perhaps with the introduction of the DC-8 and B707, as they were pneumatically started from a cart. Although, curiously enough, the Vanguard came lat
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