Fiaz From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 95 posts, RR: 0 Posted (10 years 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10385 times:
Hey all. I hope everyone is doing well, i also wanted to share that i have started my CPL and planning on getting it next February,,,,so wish me all the best.
i two unique questions to ask and maybe you guys can help me out.
Firstlly how often do go arounds happen on a daily basis.. I remember flying PIA 777 MAN - ORD.. and we were told to go around cause the BWI a330 was still on the runway 4R. so we went around and than crossed two intersections of pappi and dianne, before they put us back into resuqeunce for 4R .Like do these happen allot on a daily basis at major airports where theres allot of traffic congestion????
OK we all know that there are major carriers out there that have 777,747s, and 340s... NOW i live in Toronto and im a regular spotter for yyz, but when i see one day that KLM or Lufthansa brings the 747 and than the next day they will bring the 777 or the 340...now i know it doesnt happen everyday like that but, it does happen a few times a month....my question is this...when a 747 cockpit crew brings the plane into yyz(or any other airport), and than the next day the airliner sends a 777 or 340..... WHO operates that flight back to its destination....i know the cockpit crew from the 747 cant...so who does..???? i know its a weird questions but i want to know the answer to this.
Here in the UK at what must be the world's busiest single runway airport - LGW - which has a bias towards leisure traffic, it happens virtually every day in the summer (high) season. I recall seeing two entirely separate go-arounds at LGW within 40 minutes of each other because of traffic still on the runway.
It is not an unusual occurrence at slot bound LHR but I do not think it is as common as at LGW where the problem is both spacing of aircraft on final and mixing departing and arriving traffic.
Brilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4591 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10339 times:
The go around only seem to happen at very busy times at most airports. The reasons for a go around are as varied so when you asked if they happen often it depends on the airport and how congested the ground movements are.
youve obviously not flown into Alaska very much. in the 17 years ive been flying into Alaska ive expirenced more go arounds due to fog and wind then i can remember flying into Kodiak and Ducth Harbor. when AS was still flying to Ducth i believe that around one quarter of the approaces into ducth were aborted. in the 15-ish times ive flown there on Reeve, AS and Pen Air i think i have had 8 or 9. and flying into Kodiak i have had around 20. the only others i have had is 2 into ANC, 1 into SEA, 1 into SFO and 1 into RDM
FFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 733 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10295 times:
Ihave flown maybe some 1 - 1.5 million miles in my life, and I remember been on 6 or 7 go-arounds. Is that even close to a typical ratio? These have happened in JFK, LGA, ARN, NRT - if I remember correctly. So mostly on busy airports.
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 66
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 10242 times:
I'd say I averaged a go-around for non-weather reasons maybe once every 600-800 hours over my career. Guy landing ahead of you misses his turnoff. Someone taxis onto the runway when they were not cleared. Couple of times I've had someone drift across from the paralell runway and get right in front of me. Once I had a little brainfade and read the FMC wrong, got myself way too high, way too close in. It happens.
In airline ops, here in the US, missed approaches for weather are almost unknown. I can't remember the last time I did one. Reason is, you have to have visibility minima or you cannot commence the approach.
I've held outside the marker for a few turns waiting for it to 'come back up' and eventually gone to the alternate. The few turns in holding (down to bingo fuel or nearly so) gave the company time to charter some buses to take the passengers from alternate to their real destination. We 'bought them a drink' and they were okay with it. People who live in places that have extreme weather are usually pretty understanding about it and hardly any of the passengers actually want to crash.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8957 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 10237 times:
For some real go-around action, go to EAA's Airventure (Oshkosh). My very favorite thing to do is (after being awaken by noisy B-1900 reverse thrust) get out of the tent, take a lawn chair out to the edge of the taxiway, and watch all of the arrivals.
It's a blast. Not only do you get to see rare and interesting aircraft arrive, but approaches and landings are usually quite...ahem..."interesting".
Once, back in 1998, I believe, I was sitting in my usual spot, and got to witness a 727-200 commence a go-around at about 100' AGL due to a Bonanza taking his time vacating the runway. The smoke, noise, and general JT8D thunder was music to my ears.
NZ8800 From New Zealand, joined May 2006, 425 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 10163 times:
Be relieved you don't have to fly into Wellington... I have gone in on a SAAB 340B in a 80kph northerly which was far from fun... even when you are told the SAAB can cope with up to 110kph - tough little things. After our arrival - you never land at Wellington, you arrive - the FA said she'd had several go rounds at the last minute in the last few weeks.
A go round was national news last year when a Beechcraft 1900 on final approach for runway 16 over Evans Bay realised a 737 was about to start its take off roll on the same runway - and slammed on full power and skidded off around to the left over Seatoun, terrorising her passengers, who nonetheless were never in any real danger. Wellington Air Traffic Control were rather embarrassed over the whole incident. But they're human - it happens.
Go rounds due to wind are fairly common at Wellington as it can change very very rapidly - gales of 110kmh are not uncommon - but it is very rare due to aircraft not yet clearing the runway anywhere in New Zealand - as we do not have the traffic density of the US or the UK. I have been fifth in the queue for Auckland yet we just went straight in.
In case you don't know what Wellington Airport is like - it's single runway 16/34 (1936m) begins in Evans Bay, crosses the Rongotai Isthmus, ends in Lyall Bay, and has hills along each side. Wind funnels through constantly from Cook Strait to the south. Pilots love it because conditions are different every time they go in. Passengers generally hate it.
MDZWTA ~ Mobile Disaster Zone When Travelling Abroad
Xjramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2511 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10147 times:
Quoting Bill142 (Reply 6): Quoting Fiaz (Thread starter):
they will bring the 777
LH don't have 777's.
Quoting Fiaz (Thread starter): NOW i live in Toronto and im a regular spotter for yyz, but when i see one day that KLM or Lufthansa brings the 747 and than the next day they will bring the 777 or the 340.
He was allocating the aircraft. The 777 to KLM and the 340 to LH.
Bellerophon From United Kingdom, joined May 2002, 587 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 10114 times:
...how often do go arounds happen...
Nearly as often as they ought to!
I would like to emphasise the point that SlamClick makes, which is that whilst diversions for weather are not uncommon, it is rare to go-around from DA because of weather.
You require suitable visibility, appropriate to your DA/DH, legally to commence an approach, so you would have to be very unlucky to pass the FAF with the required visibility, only to have the weather deteriorate over the next ninety seconds or so, whilst you descended to your DA/DH, such that you couldn’t land off the approach.
I’ve never done it for visibility, rarely for cloudbase, more often for crosswinds or adverse braking action reports. The most common reason, for me, by far, is that the preceding landing aircraft failed to clear the runway in time.
...when a 747 crew brings the plane in...and the next day the airline sends a 777....WHO operates that flight back to its destination....
The B777 crew who came out as passengers on the B747, or who operated out on a B777 that day or possibly the day before. The B747 crew might passenger home on the B777, or operate a B747 that day or the next.
Airlines generally prefer to have their crews operate, not go as passengers, but it will be down to whatever the operations managers calculate will cost the least.
Starlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17668 posts, RR: 65
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10090 times:
Quoting SlamClick (Reply 9): I've held outside the marker for a few turns waiting for it to 'come back up' and eventually gone to the alternate. The few turns in holding (down to bingo fuel or nearly so) gave the company time to charter some buses to take the passengers from alternate to their real destination. We 'bought them a drink' and they were okay with it. People who live in places that have extreme weather are usually pretty understanding about it and hardly any of the passengers actually want to crash.
"Hardly any"... But of course you do have that vocal minority...
If it wasn't clear before, I wanted to point out that a go-around is not an emergency in itself. It is a maneuver well within the norm for the aircraft and crew. As part of approach briefings, the crew will go through landing AND go-around procedures. A go-around can be performed all the way down to decision height, thus named because it's when you decide if you want to land or go-around. In some cases, decision height is 0 feet and a go-around can actually be initiated with the main gear on the ground.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
JAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3755 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10060 times:
Say KL send 744s to YYZ regularly. One day they decide to put the 777 on the flight that day. Who flies the plane back to AMS? Do they have a 777 cockpit crew onboard the incoming AMS-YYZ flight and the 744 pilots from the day before just fly home as PAX?
Support the beer and soda can industry, recycle old airplanes!
AmericanAirFan From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 410 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9999 times:
Ive seen one at an airshow with formation fliers one guy came in faster than the other and had to go around. Commercially I saw an American MD-80 that looked like he got the wrong radial on the ILS into KAUS and he did a go around. I caught in on film too
"American 1881 Cleared For Takeoff One Seven Left"
OlegShv From Sweden, joined Mar 2006, 683 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9894 times:
I've been on a go-around at CDG in AF B777. The weather was nasty that day with strong thunderstorms and low ceiling. We landed without any issues on the second attempt.
Being a pretty regular spotter at CVG, I've seen 3 or 4 go-arounds due to traffic on the runway. I've also seen IL-86 going around after missed approach at SVO in Moscow.
ANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 9859 times:
Only fix or six in 31 years in the business - and of those only one (at GVA during a thunderstorm) did we actually bounce once and keep on going - you could have cut the silence with a knife! The go-around and second attempt was even worse!
The other memorable one was also at GVA, pilot put the pedal to the metal when we were about 15m high - appears somebody in a private B747 hadn't cleared the runway at the 1st appropriate turnoff. Big blue and white bird visiting the Evian G8 summit. Wish I could remember his name.
JulianUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9704 times:
You might like to ask the question - how many rejected landings have happened that is, technically, not a go around but a go around below the minimums for activating a go around, in particularly would like to know if anyone has actually touched down and taken off again because of a problem...
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8957 posts, RR: 56
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9701 times:
Quoting JulianUK (Reply 22): in particularly would like to know if anyone has actually touched down and taken off again because of a problem
While training in the Mooney, our SOPs required us to go around in the event of even a single bounce. Mooneys are very susceptible to pilot-induced oscillation during landing, and this particular SOP minimized the risk. The key was to prevent pilots from attempting to salvage a less-than-optimum flare and landing attempt. I went around once in the Mooney due to a bounce.
Cancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9659 times:
jeez... at FRG they are more often the not. then again, it's a training field. i've gotten them a few times at smaller field but not at more major airports. guess the controllers there and at TRACON are better at spearating traffic that listens to instructions as opposed to those that are just learning how to do so.
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."