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"I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Training?  
User currently offlineVarig767 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 243 posts, RR: 3
Posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8445 times:

Hello all!

As far as I know, the terminology "I have the plane" is used in flying lessons, so there is always somebody (either student or instructor) on the controls.

However, I read this several years ago, is it still common use to say these words??

Kind regards,

Martijn Droog

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMrChips From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 927 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8432 times:

Here in Canada, it is pretty much law that there is a "You Have Control/I Have Control" handoff. It greatly reduces the frequency of situations where there is any doubt as to who is actually flying - and this applies for more than just flight training.


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User currently offlineFutureUApilot From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1365 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8408 times:

My flight Instructor says "Your Plane / My Plane." It's simpler and quicker as well as reduses the time without anyone on the controls.

-Sam



The Pilot is the highest form of life on Earth!
User currently onlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4410 posts, RR: 76
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8397 times:
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Quoting Varig767 (Thread starter):
As far as I know, the terminology "I have the plane" is used in flying lessons,

Not only during training but in everyday ops.It makes everyone aware on who is flying the aircraft. It seems, as Mr Chips says that the formula is nowadays a very positive :"I/You have control".
That formula is,with CRM-conscious airlines (aren't they all, now ?), the first item of any abnormal check-list.And it becomes even more important during phases of some urgency - like a TCAS resolution-. It means that one is responsible for the trajectory and the other is helping with the ancillaries.



Contrail designer
User currently offlineBri2k1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 988 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8377 times:

Many cirricula now encourage a three-way exchange of control:

Instructor: "You have the flight controls"
Student: "I have the flight controls"
Instructor: "You have the flight controls"

The student is never confused about who is in control. This is useful for lower-time students who may not even be very comfortable with speaking in the cockpit. In practice, its generally not used when the instructor takes control back from the student, but only when giving control to the student.



Position and hold
User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8325 times:

This applies not only for students. Airlines are very clear about this too and we use it every day.


smrtrthnu
User currently offlineMsllsmith From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 396 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8301 times:

I think that anything that indicates who's flying the damned thing works.....

As long as SOMEONE is flying...... "You take it", or "I've got it"

I find also that if the PF is screaming..... or gagging.... or unconscious..... these are also indications for the PNF to take the controls.

But then again I'm 60 years behind in aviation..... so what do I know.



There's nothing more beautiful than flying into the dawn.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8262 times:

I've been flying for three years now, and this kind of cross-checking has always been used in some form ("my airplane", "my flight controls", "you have control", etc.).

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8234 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8247 times:

I say it when flying with any other pilot where we're sharing control at any point.


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User currently offlineMsllsmith From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 396 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8229 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 8):
I say it when flying with any other pilot where we're sharing control at any point.

Well, no, if you think about it, only ONE person can be flying. Otherwise that's how accidents happen.

It's kind of the equivalent of "too many cooks spoil the broth"..... there have been a number of GA accidents where there are two or more pilots in the a/c and instead of a decision being made, a discussion happens among them which wastes time and causes confusion..... and all is lost. It's kind of anti-CRM in that case. I believe that in the situation where there are more than one licenced pilot in a small GA a/c that a clear PIC has to be designated at all times.



There's nothing more beautiful than flying into the dawn.
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8234 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8226 times:

Quoting Msllsmith (Reply 9):
Well, no, if you think about it, only ONE person can be flying. Otherwise that's how accidents happen.

You know what I mean. And if you don't for some reason, I mean sharing responsibility over the course of the flight... not simultaneously.  sarcastic 



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User currently offlineJamesbuk From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 3968 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8217 times:

Yup we use it the instructer normally says it though like he'll say I have control, and ill say You have control and then he'll say You have control, I have control.
Simple really.

Rgds --James--



You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
User currently offlineHorizonGirl From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 807 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 8169 times:

Quoting MrChips (Reply 1):

Yes, whenever I've taken the controls, it's always been
"You have control/I have control."

Devon



Flying high on the Wings of the Great Northwest!
User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8139 times:

The Army is HUGE on 3-way control transfer.

After losing a couple AH-64 Apache helicopters in class-A accidents... they bought into the whole idea.

In the Apache, the pilots sit behind/in front of one another. There is no way to visually check that the transfer of control. So proper cockpit communication is essential, but it was a problem in the early days. The pilot flying would say, "You have the controls." To which the other pilot gives a grunt or something similar, leading the pilot to think he had transfered the controls and wasn't flying anymore. In fact no one is flying, because the 2nd pilot grunted at something completely different and didn't even here his buddy out back transfer him the controls. So no one is flying and they crash.

Which isn't surprising... the average apache driver doesn't have a vocabulary more advanced than say a gorilla. Hooting, grunting and what not.

-UH60


User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8137 times:

Hi guys.

Quoting Varig767 (Thread starter):
"I have the plane"



Quoting Varig767 (Thread starter):
is it still common use to say these words??

>> Varig767, as mentioned above, the answer is yes. It is verbally expressed between the pilots in the cockpit who has control of the airplane.

During my PPL training in 1986/87 both flying clubs I flew with used "I have control" & "You have control" between the instructor & student while flying along.

I had a certain instructor (who's name shall go unmentioned .... John Morruzzi  silly  ), use the important phrase "I Have Control!!!" with extreme ergency in his voice on a few occasions. Once during climbout off of runway 08 at the Toronto Island Airport (CYTZ), when I was the PF and my seat suddenly slid all the way back to the stops and I could barely touch the controls in the Cessna 152 as I was passing through about 1,500 feet.

Another time I can remember those words with a stern voice was when I was on very short final for runway 33 at the same airport and my instructor took control and yelled at me ..."do you think you came close enough to those trees???", as we were descending over tall trees near the runway's threshold. I thought everything was looking fine, but he sure didn't.

I may have cause that instuctor's blood pressure to rapidly increase on other occasions too that I can't recall at the moment.  bitelip 


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While flying with another pilot you should never just ASSUME that he/she is flying or has taken care of a procedure ...... such as extending the gear before landing!

"I thought you put the gear down!" "Well, I thought you put it down!"


Chris  Smile



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User currently offlineUA777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8131 times:

Quoting Bri2k1 (Reply 4):
Many cirricula now encourage a three-way exchange of control:

Instructor: "You have the flight controls"
Student: "I have the flight controls"
Instructor: "You have the flight controls"

This correct. It is my understanding that it will slowly be required. I sat with an FAA instructor who praised my ability to use the 3-way system. It was, however, only taught to me by one of my 3 instructors.

"You have the controls"
"I have the controls"
"You have the controls"

or

"Your Aircraft"
"My Aircraft"
"Your Aircraft"

All my best,

Matt



"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
User currently offlineMsllsmith From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 396 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8075 times:

Quoting Msllsmith (Reply 9):
Well, no, if you think about it, only ONE person can be flying. Otherwise that's how accidents happen.



Quoting N766UA (Reply 10):
You know what I mean. And if you don't for some reason, I mean sharing responsibility over the course of the flight... not simultaneously.

Yes, I did know what you meant, but was trying to emphasise what others have since brought up.....clear communication, clear division of responsibilities when in the context of a small a/c and more than one "pilot". I think there is a lot of room for education about things like CRM and the concept of Sterile Cockpit in GA. Ideas we take for granted in commercial aviation (highly regulated). The original question was a very good one, because it allows all of us non-commercial aviation types to spend some time thinking about these things the next time we climb into a 172 with our chums.

On a very personal note, I remember with some chills (because I had two of my children in the backseat), an instance on take off while I'm sitting in the right seat day dreaming my brains out and the left seat said kind of casually, "You take it."...... I wasn't expecting it, and it took me a second to even realize he had just given me the plane. I learned a lesson and had a little talk with my friend about it afterwards. Obviously nothing happened, it was just a little bobble, I should have been more on my toes and he should have waited for me to acknowledge it. So we both learned something.

(edited for content)

[Edited 2006-06-03 15:22:35]


There's nothing more beautiful than flying into the dawn.
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8008 times:

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 15):
It was, however, only taught to me by one of my 3 instructors.

Odd, Positive exchange of controls (what they like to call this three-step method) is actually an area of emphasis in the CFI PTS.

After some confusion with a student I reverted back to this unless imminent death could be the result of taking the time to do this.



DMI
User currently offlineUA777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8000 times:

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 17):

Odd, Positive exchange of controls (what they like to call this three-step method) is actually an area of emphasis in the CFI PTS.

After some confusion with a student I reverted back to this unless imminent death could be the result of taking the time to do this.

It was with my first instructor. A young guy. Taught it to me before we even left the ramp and has implanted it in my mind. My second CFI was an older guy who was really into aviation and bought 2 Cessna's and put them into the FBO's rental fleet and is a CFI for them. Was very lax about the professional state of the cockpit. A great pilot none the less but if I had to name his "akilies heel" so to say, it would be that he had expected the professional attitude out of me as a standard and because he got it out of me he never felt the need to imply the standard. I can count the times I've not said "My Aircraft" or "I've got the controls" back to him and the lesson proceeded as usual on my two hands but the fact that it was allowed is an error none the less. I am just going up with a new guy tomorrow. I've flown with him once prior. He seems like fresh meat. Very much the kind of guy who after you do you W&B and weather checks, he looks at you like you're supposed to lead the show.

We'll see how tomorrow goes.

Thanks!

Matt



"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
User currently offlineHighFlyer9790 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 8 hours ago) and read 7912 times:

remember its not just for students. some airlines make it mandatory to use this terminology, for example if a pilot goes to the lav or to open the door..


121
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17030 posts, RR: 67
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 7 hours ago) and read 7902 times:

Handover announcements (and any procedural announcements) are also useful for, ahem, big brother.

There's a story in Sweden about an old crusty SK Captain and his freshly minted female F/O. The Captain was old school (in the bad way) and not very happy with women in the cockpit. While on approach to CPH with the Captain flying, the F/O was going through the checklist but the Captain only deigned her with grunts in return. He was so obviously pissed about the whole idea of flying with a woman. As they were approaching decision height, she decided that since he was not responding to the checklists he was a risk to a safe landing while at the controls. So she took matters into her own hands, said "going around" and "my aircraft". She then proceeded to go around.

Apparently his silence ended quickly with a long stream of curses. On debriefing the F/O said that she knew what was happening and really had no choice but to take over, with all the proper "my aircraft" call-outs. CVR transcripts proved that she had been following procedure to the letter, and he had been... grunting angrily. That was his last flight with SK.



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