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Nose Pitch On Final......  
User currently offlineFP_v2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1728 times:

For some reason I always belived that on final approach pilots keep the nose up 3 degrees. However while watching Dash-8's land at my local airport I noticed that they land with the nose pointed down at least 5 degrees. Is there a standard and if not what is it usually?

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBio15 From Colombia, joined Mar 2001, 1089 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1611 times:

Most aircraft land 'nose up'. I'm not sure about this 'nose down' case, but it has something to do with higher landing speed. Maybe someone can expand a bit further.

-bio


User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1604 times:

i have observed Alliance Air 732's make very high speed "dives" onto the rwy on a regular basis, pulling up just before the rwy.

User currently offlineCV640 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 952 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1583 times:

Its a 3 degree glide path that you need to maintain. Where the nose is pointed is dependant on the plane and its wing. The CRJ has no slats, so it has a very nose low approach, if you ever jump seat on one you'd swear that the crew was going to dive straight into the runway. The Saab does have a very nose low approach attitude also. The wing of the plane dictates its angle. At slower speed the angle of attack that is necessary to stay in the air and maintain Vref varies widely from aircraf t to aircraft. In jets that are designed for high speed flight, they need flaps and most needs slats. They need this make up for the slower airflow over the wing and teh less lift that they generate. If you look at jets with slats you'll notice that they have a much higher nose angle on appraoch, comapred to early DC-9s, Fokkers, and the CRJs.
The nose low approach does give you better visibility and helps you judge the flare altitude a lot better though. So, it does have a few advantages.
Hope this helps


User currently offlineZionstrat From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1564 times:

Thank you CV640- This is an issue I have partially understood for some time, but now it is much clearer-

One other question- I have never noticed a "nose pitch" metric on manufactures sites or other references-Is this published anywhere outside of pilot manual?

Thanks!


User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1538 times:

There is no published value for nose pitch, it's eyeballed.  Big thumbs up

(Not sure about the airliners, they might have a published value, but it seems fairly pointless to me if they had one since there's so many variables)



09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineCV640 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 952 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1537 times:

Yes, sorry there is not set value. Remember it would be based on speed, which is dependant on weight. Also a few other factors, we mainly use our eyes with the glide slope as a back up, of course those are on days when we can see the runway, otherwise we are heads inside.

User currently offlineAerLingus From China, joined Mar 2000, 2371 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1496 times:

The final upward pitch onto the main undercarriage is known as the flair, is it not?


Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
User currently offlineKonaB777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1493 times:

The Boeing 377 Stratocruiser landed nosewheel first...it was normal operating procedure.

User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4200 posts, RR: 37
Reply 9, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1488 times:

AerLingus.. yes you are correct. The flare corresponds with pulling the engines to idle (in most larger airplanes... smaller ones the engine goes idle alot earlier) and is used for bleeding off as much speed as possible just before touchdown (smoothness being the goal here...which is not always achieved). There are cases when you are not supposed to flare, especially in light aircraft (not sure on heavy ones) which have accumulated a load of ice on their wings. If you flare with ice on your wings the plane stalls at a much higher airspeed due to the changed wing shape... and smacks into what ever is below you, shedding the ice, possibly your landing gear struts, props, and your once clean pair of pants.


Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineSU508 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1482 times:

Yeah, I also heard somewhere that some a/c have too high speed when landing so they have to keep their nose down.
Some Dash a/c is like that and so is Ilyshin Il-114.

All the best!


BBC_CCCP
RUS AF RULES!!!


User currently offlineMusang From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 864 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1439 times:

KonaB777 - Ref the Boeing 337, the Super Guppies which were converted from the Strats also used to land nosewheel first depending on how they were loaded and the weight. I heard they were retrofitted with Boeing 707 nosegears to withstand the impacts!

_ Musang


User currently offlineMiller22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 718 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1432 times:

Its all about the slats and where the engines are located.

CRJ has no slats and has rear engines, hence the nose seems very low. The higher line of thrust pushes the nose down, while on a 737, 757 or any other aircraft with wing mounted engines, it pulls the nose up. Opposite happens during thrust reverse, as can be expected.


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