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Wheel Lock On Landing? (Video)  
User currently offlineNoelG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4423 times:

I was at MAN filming the arrivals for the A.net meet this morning, and in amongst the A.netters appeared the Onur Air A300.

I took this video of it landing (apologies for the amount of compression Photobucket put on; I have a much higher res version if anyone wants to email me for it):




The aircraft appears to bounce quite a distance (or a very long flare), and engages reversers much later than they usually do.

Notice how when the aircraft is right in front of you when there is suddenly a lot of smoke from the rear wheels. It's definately not liquid on the runway, as no other aircraft caused such a spray, and even if it were water wouldn't the front wheel be smoking/misting too?

Also, right near the end when the engines quieten down a bit I'm sure I can hear the screeching of tyres...

Could this be the brakes locking on and could this not be dangerous?

Cheers
Noel

10 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCymro From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 91 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4410 times:

I cant get the video to play is it just me?

User currently offlineErjmech From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4377 times:

It could be an anti-skid failure or brakes. I have seen a/c with shredded brakes and tires when the anti-skid system does not work properly. Normally and I can not speak for Airbus each main has a wheel speed transducer that sends a signal to the appropriate controller for the brakes. If a wheel is locking up something has failed or......for Mid-Atlantic fans when a pilot lands with the parking break set......

User currently offlineNoelg From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4362 times:

Quoting Cymro (Reply 1):
I cant get the video to play is it just me?

Could be you don't have Flash installed - I think it uses Flash to work?

If not, try this:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v6...on=view¤t=OnurAirLanding.flv

Noel


User currently offlineCymro From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 91 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4346 times:

Quoting Noelg (Reply 3):

Could be you don't have Flash installed - I think it uses Flash to work?

Thanks I did have it flash installed but was running at version 7 not 8 as required sorted now.


User currently offlineWorldXplorer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4229 times:

Quoting NoelG (Thread starter):
Also, right near the end when the engines quieten down a bit I'm sure I can hear the screeching of tyres...

I heard that too. Something went wrong. I am no expert so I am just taking an educated guess.

If one tire burst I would suspect that there would just be one burst of smoke rather than several. Several tires could have burst I suppose. The question is why were they breaking so hard? NoelG, how close is the a/c to end of the runway? If the a/c is close to the end then perhaps due to the late engagement of the thrust reversers the a/c needed to break hard. If there was plenty of runway left then I would suspect some sort of a malfunction with auto-brakes.

Like I said, I am just taking educated guesses. Hopefully someone with more technical knowledge will pop in on this thread. I am quite curious myself.

WorldXplorer


User currently offlineNoelg From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3953 times:

Quoting WorldXplorer (Reply 5):
NoelG, how close is the a/c to end of the runway?

He was getting on to the other end of the runway, as you can see from my diagram:

http://www.marshgiddings.com/images/onurairdiagram.jpg

He was between the two exits as you can see - but not dangerously close to the other end as many other aircraft were turning off past where he was - although he was maybe a little faster at that point than the other aircraft.

I don't think it was a blow out as he taxied absolutely fine after that and there was no easily visible damage to the tires. There were also no sparks or anything (although maybe at low speed there wouldn't be anyway).

Cheers
Noel


User currently offlineMusapapaya From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3874 times:

Will that be some overheating on the brakes? I would suggest outting this to the Tech/Ops department for discussion.

Regards
William



Lufthansa Group of Airlines
User currently offlineDl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3700 times:

Quoting WorldXplorer (Reply 5):
If one tire burst I would suspect that there would just be one burst of smoke rather than several. Several tires could have burst I suppose.

No tires burst. You would have heard it in the video as it is a very loud explosion when one lets go.

DL757Md



757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
User currently offlineJarheadK5 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 216 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3449 times:

The smoke was definitely from braking. I've got no input on anti-skid issues, other than to say something was obviously not working correctly.
If you watch carefully, you can detect the nose dipping a bit, just before the tires lock the first time, as the brakes are applied.

Maybe the crew wanted to make the turnoff at Alpha Echo really badly...



Cleared to Contact
User currently offlineBio15 From Colombia, joined Mar 2001, 1089 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3215 times:

Quoting WorldXplorer (Reply 5):
If the a/c is close to the end then perhaps due to the late engagement of the thrust reversers the a/c needed to break hard.

The thrust reversers are not part of the equation in calculating the landing distance. Even if the thrust reversers had not deployed at all, the aircraft should have been able to brake safely in the available runway distance.

If you take a closer look the spoilers are only deployed after the second touchdown (since the aircraft bounces off the runway once). The spoilers are usually deployed right after the aircraft touches the runway so it sticks to the ground and braking commences in a timely fashion. The spoiler extension delay apparently leads to the fly-by that takes place during the bounce, and this shortens the available braking distance in a couple hundred feet or so.

My guess is that probably by attempting a smooth landing the pilots ended up overshooting this initial braking point, and probably the need of an early runway exit summed up to generate a landing with heavy braking. Have in mind that everything here are assumptions, only the front seaters in the A300 that day have the facts for this interesting landing.


Alfredo


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