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Engine Naming  
User currently offlineAC320tech From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 197 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3875 times:

I heard someware that the P&W JT series of engines stands for Jet Turbine. If that is the case, than what does the number and the D (or C in the JT3C) mean? Does CF stand for anything in CF6?

I know the numbers in the engine model has to stand for something other then sounding good when you say it, like RB211-535E4B? Howcome Rolls Royce used RB (and what does it stand for) and now Trent?

I know it is a lot of questions, bu Thanks!

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDH106 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 626 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3868 times:

Can't help you with anything but the Trent part - most RR turboprop/jet engines are named after British rivers - Trent, Spey, Avon, Dart, Tyne.


...I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate....
User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3855 times:

Perhaps they should have changed the Trent 556 name to the Thames... its full of sh!t... haha!


Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineN8076U From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 425 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3839 times:

The "D" in JT3D, JT8D, JT9D stands for "ducted", as they are all turbofans rather than a turbojet like the JT3C. I have no idea what the "C" in JT3C stands for, though.  Wink

Chris



Don't blame me, I don't work here...
User currently offlineAC320tech From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3835 times:

Thanks Chris.

All the 707-120 and -320's have JT3C's and when you see pictures of it, is one whole engine with no LP bypass (thats open, because the JT3C is a turbojet) like on the JT3D, so the C should probibly stand for Closed.

Hahahaha at Kevin, it should be, considering RR them selves are not pleased with the fuel consmption of those engines.


User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3821 times:

Quoting AC320tech (Reply 4):
Hahahaha at Kevin, it should be, considering RR them selves are not pleased with the fuel consmption of those engines.

The core of the engine is pretty good, its just a shame that everything else bolted onto it isnt...



Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5155 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3816 times:

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 5):
The core of the engine is pretty good, its just a shame that everything else bolted onto it isnt...

Don't tell me it has Lucas Electrics????



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3813 times:

Quoting LongHauler (Reply 6):
Don't tell me it has Lucas Electrics????

Even better, it has AIRBUS parts stuck to the side of it...  Wink



Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineAC320tech From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3809 times:

I does have the fan of the Trent 700, which isnt the greatest. Kevin, do you have any trouble with the tripple spool?

User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3802 times:

Quoting AC320tech (Reply 8):
Kevin, do you have any trouble with the tripple spool?

The shaft protection can be a pain (the system that detects if any of the shafts have sheared). Causes some troubles at time however normally a reset and functional test of the EEC fixes the problem. Operationally the engine causes little trouble, but it can make for awkward delays... Most engine issues i see are with items attatched to the powerplant (Hyds, Elecs, Bleed etc...)

[Edited 2006-08-03 03:47:36]


Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineJetlife2 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 221 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3781 times:

RB = Rolls Barnoldswick

CF = Commercial Fan

CJ = Commercial Jet

CFM = Commercial Fan Moteur

Sub-naming conventions for GE:
major models are, for example, Commercial Fan 6 (CF6).

This becomes a family name - and now has acquired a "Brand" value. So quite a range of engines are designated under the "CF6" family name, even though this spans CF6-6 up through CF6-80, where you could have easily designated them CF6, CF7, etc.

Simlarly CFM56 was named using part GE, part SNECMA methods. SN designates in sequence "Moteur 56", "Moteur 88" etc. So we have

CFM56 = Commercial Fan Moteur 56

The CFM56 is now a brand so it acquired sub types CFM56-2, -3, -5, etc. The missing numbers (-1, -4) did exist as studies. Extra credit if you know which applications they could have been. The -6 was not used to avoid possible confusion with CF6.


Further models within a family have names that designate the basic engine, such as
CF6-80C2
CF6-80E1
These are just the start....
suffix B - Boeing, A - Airbus, D - Douglas
sometimes suffix F means FADEC (vs PMC) but this is so common now, so no longer used for new programs.
first example CF6-80C2D1F is a "CF6-80C2" engine built for the first Douglas installation (D1) with a FADEC
2nd example CF6-80C2B6F is a "CF6-80C2" engine for the 6th Boeing application (B6) with FADEC. Why 6? Different thrust ratings for Boeing would be counted B1, B2, etc.
3rd example CF6-80E1A1 is a "CF6-80E1" engine for the first Airbus application (A1).

There's more...but that will have to do for now.


User currently offlineAC320tech From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3773 times:

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 9):
Most engine issues i see are with items attatched to the powerplant (Hyds, Elecs, Bleed etc...)

The Embraer E-Jets have lots of "sensor" issues and bleed issues on the CF34. These sensor issues are common, and can be fixed by simply "resetting" the aircraft (IE powering it all down, or resetting the FADEC) which can take upwards of 15 minutes.

Jetlife2, you earn my respect.


User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3720 times:

Certainly earned my RR...

Thanks Jetlife2!



Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineDarkBlue From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 233 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3685 times:

Quoting Jetlife2 (Reply 10):
2nd example CF6-80C2B6F is a "CF6-80C2" engine for the 6th Boeing application (B6) with FADEC. Why 6? Different thrust ratings for Boeing would be counted B1, B2, etc.

Boeing has 2 aircraft that both carry CF6-80C2 (747 and 767) and for the most part, the engine is only differentiated by thrust rating. However, I've noticed something that helps me remember which rating goes on which aircraft. I'm sure this was entirely unintentional, but odd ratings (B1F, B3F, B5F) are on the 747, while even ratings (B2F, B4F, B6F, B8F) are on the 767. The one except to my dumb little rule is the B7F which is on the 767.

Quoting Jetlife2 (Reply 10):
These are just the start....
suffix B - Boeing, A - Airbus, D - Douglas

and i'll carry on in the CF6 family with:
  • L - Lockheed, K - Kawasaki (for the CF6-80C2L1F and K1F models)




CF34-10 family
  • E - Embraer, A - ACAC (CF34-10E & CF34-10A)




GEnx family, GE has used the same nomenclature for airframer:
  • A - Airbus, B - Boeing (GEnx-1A, GEnx-1B)

Multiple aircraft within the same airframer is noted by the first number:
  • GEnx-1B (787), GEnx-2B (747-8)

Finally takeoff thrust rating is noted by a number after the letter to give you a rough idea of takeoff thrust:
  • GEnx-1B70, GEnx-2B67, GEnx-1A72


User currently offlineJetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2577 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3602 times:

On the CF6-50 series, the -50C2 was the Airbus A300 version and the -50E2 was the Boeing 747 version of the same engine, so the suffixes (at least at that time) were issued in sequence, rather than A for Airbus, B for Boeing.

There was also a CF6-45A (for the 747SP I think), again it was the same basic engine as the CF6-50, probably with a reduced thrust rating. As the "50" probably represented the TO thrust rating (which is in the 50,000 lbs range) the -45 was probably derated to around 45,000 lbs.

Not sure why GE chose the CF6-80 designation, maybe they thought it would grow to 80,000 thrust? Possibly it was because 8 is a lucky number in the Far East?

Around the time the CF6-80 came out engine designations were getting out of hand, being more like a part number trying to represent everything in one. PW "rationalised" this by adopting its new numbering system, replacing JT9D-7R4xx with the new PW4000 series, where the last two digits represented thrust rating. It wasn't long before the suffixes started to appear again though!

I suspect RR adopted the name Trent (the engine is still officially an RB211) as the numbers were getting out of hand, also as a marketing brand re-launch.

As for the JT3C, JT3D issue the JT3C came first, so I suspect the fan version was named JT3D simply because D comes after C alphabetically, so it was the next designation in sequence. If the letter was to mean something, F would have made more sense. Of course the D suffix then stuck as meaning turbofan on the JT8D, JT9D, etc., even though there was no turbojet equivalent. So "D for ducted" probably came later. The C in JT3C certainly doesn't stand for "closed" as was suggested earlier.



The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
User currently offlineManzoori From UK - England, joined Sep 2002, 1516 posts, RR: 33
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3560 times:

Quoting AC320tech (Reply 8):
I(t) does have the fan of the Trent 700, which isnt the greatest.

Oh really? Since when?

Rez
 Big grin



Flightlineimages DOT Com Photographer & Web Editor. RR Turbines Specialist
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