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High Winged Aircraft  
User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2248 times:

What is the reason for some manufacturers mounting the horizontal stabilizer at the top of the tail?

Dash 8s, ATRs etc all have high mounted wings and high mounted H. Stabilizers, so I would think it has something to do with that. But then airplanes like the C130 also has high mounted wings, but low mounted H. Stabilizers.

So what is the reason? Purely asthetics? Or is there a technical reason.


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13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16976 posts, RR: 67
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2223 times:

Quoting Captaink (Thread starter):

So what is the reason? Purely asthetics? Or is there a technical reason.

Yes. They mount them there to make the aircraft look cool  Wink

As far as I know, there are two reasons for moving the stab: engine positioning and shadowing. You don't want to be in a situation where the wing perturbs airflow over the stab and renders it ineffective.

Presumably there is a difference in the airflows between a Dash 8 and a Hercules. Perhaps the Hercules low stab is not in a position shadowed by the wing as the ATR would be.



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User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29786 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2218 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
As far as I know, there are two reasons for moving the stab: engine positioning and shadowing. You don't want to be in a situation where the wing perturbs airflow over the stab and renders it ineffective.

3rd reason, you don't want a ramp rat driving into it. Up there you are pretty much out of the way.

Herk doesn't have the aft side cargo door the Dash 8 or the B1900 have.



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User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21424 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2214 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
3rd reason, you don't want a ramp rat driving into it. Up there you are pretty much out of the way.

Hmm, good point. Offhand I can't think of any common regional airliners that don't have a T-tail, apart from the Saab 340 and 2000.

-Mir



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User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16976 posts, RR: 67
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2212 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
3rd reason, you don't want a ramp rat driving into it. Up there you are pretty much out of the way.

Hmm, good point. Offhand I can't think of any common regional airliners that don't have a T-tail, apart from the Saab 340 and 2000.

I'm gonna guess that the SAAB 340 and 2000 don't have a cargo door in a delicate position. But then again, doesn't the ATR have a front cargo hold?



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29786 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2208 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 4):
I'm gonna guess that the SAAB 340 and 2000 don't have a cargo door in a delicate position. But then again, doesn't the ATR have a front cargo hold

Yeah the Saabs do have the low tail and aft cargo bay, the Metro has that mid tail and the aft door.

Compared to the aerodynamics of the aircraft, arranging things to prevend ground rash is a lesser consideration, but thinking about it can prevent a lot of problems for the operators. I pointed this out to the guys you where building the Kodiak when they had it on display at last years aviation trad show in Anchorage, which is a single engined turboprop, akin to the Caravan.

They have an aft door sized to take a full sized pallet, but they hinged the door so it only xtends out to a little higher then level to the ground...an invitation for somebody to put a forklift tower in it. I told the sales reps at the show that also.



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User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2202 times:
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Whenever possible, engineers place engines, control surfaces, and internal components as inconveniently as possible to complicate the lives of maintenance personnel.  Wink




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User currently offlineAC320tech From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2170 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 4):

I'm gonna guess that the SAAB 340 and 2000 don't have a cargo door in a delicate position. But then again, doesn't the ATR have a front cargo hold?

Front and a rear bulk hold.


User currently offline57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2550 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2066 times:

Reason for the high wing is pretty much dictated by the intended use. You need a powerplant setup with sufficient prop clearance but everything has to be designed so that the aircraft does not require ground support at outlying stations. Therefore the cabin and hold floors must naturally be as low to the ground as possible. Ideally the hold should be low enough for someone to comfortably jump to the ground from and climb into with a small ladder. Probaby just easier to use a high wing design. Only low wing commuter types I can think of are the Saabs, the EMB 110-120, Beech 1900 series and the HS748. I believe (but am not certain) that the ATR deck sill is lower than these previously mentioned aircraft.

[Edited 2006-08-07 08:53:36]


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User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4798 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2039 times:

Quoting Captaink (Thread starter):
But then airplanes like the C130 also has high mounted wings, but low mounted H. Stabilizers.

The herc's tail is quite highly mounted (giving room for the rear ramp) so in effect the low horz stab is effectively in a position that would be mid height on other a/c.



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User currently offlineBoeingOnFinal From Norway, joined Apr 2006, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2034 times:

Fokker 50 har high wing, low horizontal stabilizer.


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Photo © Anders Presterud



How does that work? It doesn't look like they are lined up exactly. But when it's rotating the horizontal stabilizer has to be affected by the air flow from the wings, no?



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User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16976 posts, RR: 67
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2022 times:

Quoting BoeingOnFinal (Reply 10):


How does that work? It doesn't look like they are lined up exactly. But when it's rotating the horizontal stabilizer has to be affected by the air flow from the wings, no?

Sure it is affected. But the important thing is that the stab still has authority. Obviously that seems to be the case, or the F50 would fall out of the sky regularly.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineMechEngineer From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 1976 times:

Quote:
Reason for the high wing is pretty much dictated by the intended use.

But nobody uses a T-tail if it can be avoided, because it adds weight compared to a conventional layout, or so I was told by the Do328 structure guys.



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User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1902 times:

I've heard that the "T" tail was more responsive, (why STOL aircraft use it more often) but could run into deep stalls on earlier aircraft, such as the British Aerospace 111.

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