MechEngineer From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 46 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4996 times:
A question to all you pilots, especially those whose "office" is smallish and a bit cramped (not-A380):
Do you actually use the provided handholds in the cockpit (overhead, in the glareshield, etc.), i.e when you get in and out of your seat, or adjust your seat up and down, or fore and aft?
Is there a design you find quite useful, or maybe one that seems clever, but is impractical to use in reality? What would you like to tell the designer, if you had the chance to grab one by the collar?
RaginMav From United States of America, joined May 2004, 372 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4994 times:
I know the Beechjet (fairly small cockpit) pilots at the company I work for use them all the time, both getting into/out of seats, and while seated
Jetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2462 posts, RR: 17 Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4977 times:
Sitting in the standard Boeing seats (with the small flipper release levers), it is very difficult to adjust the seat vertically without taking your weight off it by using the grab handle. Horizontal adjustment is also harder without using the handle.
The Ipeco type seats, with longer levers, can easily be adjusted without using the grab handle for balance, the same goes for motorised seats of course.
Surely the main purpose of the handle is to provide somewhere to hang the fluffy dice
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
MechEngineer From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 46 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4973 times:
Quote: I know the Beechjet (fairly small cockpit) pilots at the company I work for use them all the time, both getting into/out of seats, and while seated.
Hi, Knowledge Sponge. The odd thing is that I can't see any handholds on the Beech photos at airliners.net
Can you tell me where these are, for preference on a current Beech design?
MechEngineer From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 46 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4964 times:
Quote: Surely the main purpose of the handle is to provide somewhere to hang the fluffy dice.
I've been told the FAA has a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking about the exact size and location of fluffy dice in transport-category aircraft, which will become compulsory on April 1st 2010. I do hope your simulators comply, or you'll be out of business.
Silver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4553 posts, RR: 26 Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4812 times:
I see our pilots use them all the time.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
TheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1110 posts, RR: 3 Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4788 times:
Quoting MechEngineer (Reply 3): Hi, Knowledge Sponge. The odd thing is that I can't see any handholds on the Beech photos at airliners.net
Can you tell me where these are, for preference on a current Beech design?
MechEngineer,
The handhold is located aft and central to the overhead instrument panel.
Jetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2462 posts, RR: 17 Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4623 times:
Quoting MechEngineer (Reply 4): I've been told the FAA has a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking about the exact size and location of fluffy dice in transport-category aircraft, which will become compulsory on April 1st 2010. I do hope your simulators comply, or you'll be out of business.
LOL. Fluffy Dice Positioning compliance is an absolute priority.
Years ago, the company I then worked for made a low cost Fokker 100 systems trainer, where the grab handles (inset in the windshield frame, see photo) were there for appearance purposes only and not very strong. Needless to say, they did not last long once pilots started to use it.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31228 posts, RR: 58 Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4620 times:
Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 8): Years ago, the company I then worked for made a low cost Fokker 100 systems trainer, where the grab handles (inset in the windshield frame, see photo) were there for appearance purposes only and not very strong.
Jetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2462 posts, RR: 17 Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4610 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 9): Were the Seats in the Trainer Movable.
I think they were, I can't remember exactly, but pilots would grab the handles instinctively.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
Tod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1687 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4480 times:
Quoting MechEngineer (Thread starter): What would you like to tell the designer, if you had the chance to grab one by the collar?
Ah, come on, play nice.
I already get that treatment from the mechanics.
Quoting MechEngineer (Reply 4): I've been told the FAA has a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking about the exact size and location of fluffy dice in transport-category aircraft, which will become compulsory on April 1st 2010. I do hope your simulators comply, or you'll be out of business.
No worries, we are already working on a alternate means of compliance utilizing those tree shaped air fresheners.
Jetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2462 posts, RR: 17 Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4467 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11): Can't blame them then.
If you are providing Movable seats in a Trainer that Resembles an Aircraft,its bound to occur.
Wasn't blaming them at all. Just pointing out that instincts and habits can override other warnings. Whether the seats are movable or not will not change that.
Nobody realised that until the crews began to use it. Obviously we had noticed the handholds were flimsy (cheap out-sourced structure).
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
Modesto2 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2636 posts, RR: 6 Reply 16, posted (6 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4371 times:
I use the handholds in our EMB-135/145 aircraft when adjusting my seat forward and back. I don't find it useful or necessary for getting in and out of the seat.
Modesto2 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2636 posts, RR: 6 Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4110 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 17): Do those seats slide For-Aft.If so where do you place your free hand when you move the seat back to egress.
Yes, they slide forwards and backwards. I just put my free hand on the seat itself and turn around. It doesn't take THAT much to get out of the seat.
MechEngineer From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 46 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3934 times:
OK, thanks for the information, everyone. Apparently, cockpit handholds are universally used and the current designs do what they're supposed to do. Watch out for the handholds in a utility jet that will be on the market next year.
Happy landings.
Nonfirm From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 434 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3929 times:
I use the handhold it the 737 everytime we tow or taxi to help adjust my seat.
MechEngineer From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 46 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3897 times:
Quote: What's special about them.
Nothing. You missed your chance.
Seriously, I was looking for some elegant-looking handhold from a non-aviation application that can be moved out of the way when not in use, but wanted to make sure I hadn't missed an operational aspect that might make the concept impractical, that's why I asked you pilots (the customer wouldn't want me to name the aircraft in an internet forum, alas).
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