PhilB From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 14 Reply 2, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1618 times:
The upper deck was originally going to be a bar area - and in many cases, for a short time, was.
When passenger seats replaced the "recreational area" there were complaints about lack of windows.
Boeing offered a retro fit of up to 10 windows per side which some airlines took up BUT, though many recognition books say that 100srs with the conversion and all 200srs have ten windows per side, this is not strictly true.
The window blanks for 10 a side are there but some airlines left the odd window blanked over, depending on how it fitted out the upper deck. For instance, if the crew rest area was at the rear, the last row or two of windows may have been left blank.
A40-TY From United Arab Emirates, joined Apr 2000, 143 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1591 times:
When early 747's were delivered to their customers, they were equipped with a lounge area on the upper deck, and so were fitted with a 3 window set. With the increase in oil prices in the 1970's, airlines saw the financial benefits of adding more seats on the upper deck, in turn a large number of 747's (both -100's and -200's) were converted in order to have 10 windows to cater for the increase in the number of passengers. For some reason, a smaller number of 747's retained their 3 window status (the French airline Corsair still operate a 747-100 with the 3 window set, as do Air Atlanta Icelandic who operate a couple of 747-246B's that retain their 3 window upper deck).
On your second question about 'Is it possible to identify the difference between a 747-100 and 747-200?'
The answer is yes, on some aircraft...We have already established that it is very difficult to tell a -100 from a -200 by the number of windows, however it can be possible to identify one model from the other by engine type.
Any 747 with CF6 powerplants is a -200 (or 300), as this engine option was offered on the higher gross weight model (-200). Also the Rolls Royce RB211-524D4 powered 747's are -200's, again offered on the higher gross weight 747-200. However Saudi Arabian Airlines operates a number of Rolls Royce RB211-524B 747's that are actually -100's (custom built lower thrust and weight aircraft). It is much more difficult to spot the difference between a P+W 747-100 and 747-200 as the engine design is virtually identical.
Finally, you also say that a 747-300 can be spotted easily...however, some airlines (eg. KLM and Japan Airlines) had their 747-100 and 747-200 aircraft converted with the SUD (Stretched Upper Deck) feature, so they are now technically 747-300's, but the airlines themselves call them 747-206B SUD (KLM) and Japan Airlines 747-146B SUD. Japan Airlines designates a small number of it's 747 Short Range aircraft 747-146BSR/SUD!!
King767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1507 times:
I heard that another reason why airlines added the windows was also to convince mainly the more frequent passangers that they were flying on a newer -200, as the 3 window setup resembled an early 747, which may not impress some passangers.
Skwpilot From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 60 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (12 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1498 times:
From what I've been able to surmise from my studies, the 100 series 74's had a series of black lines (static electricity conductors between the forward spar and the hot leading edge on the top of the wing. These panels were composite requiring static dischargers. On the 200's, these don't show as I suspect some other method was developed.
747Specialist From Switzerland, joined Apr 2001, 47 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (12 years 7 months 6 days ago) and read 1401 times:
There's always a misunderstanding about the difference between a 741 and a 742. It's not the numbers of windows on the upper deck.
All passenger's 747s from line nr #1 to line nr#148 were buildt with 3 window holes on the upper-deck. This include 100 and 200 series. Line #149 (First QANTAS 747-238B VH-EBA) was the first 747 buildt with 8 to 10 window holes, and that became standard for all classic 747s buildt just after it, again including -100 and 200 series. Now some early 747 operators had to made a choice for fleet commonalty: Either they had to convert their early 747s to 8/10 windows or had their new delivered 747s with 3 windows and blanks to cover the remaining holes on the upper deck.
The only 3 operators that had 747s delivered (after #149) with 3 windows (+ 5 blanks) were American, PanAm and TWA. On the other hand, British Airways, KLM, Sabena, Northwest, Air Canada, Swissair, United and Air India had all their early 747s retroffited with the 8/10 windows modification.
Saudia is the only operator that received it's whole bunch of 747-100s with standard 8/10 windows because they were buildt after the change. Air France and JAL were 2 operators that operated for many years a mix of orginal-3 windows and newer 8/10 windows 747-100s.
In this post, I speak of course only of early original first hand 747s operators.
747Specialist From Switzerland, joined Apr 2001, 47 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (12 years 7 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1338 times:
The only 747-200s remaining with 3 original windows must be some of ex-JAL 747-246s. These are now in service with Air Atlanta Icelandic as TF-ATB and ATF and were never converted to the 8/10 configuration.
The SUD conversion was ordered by 3 airlines: KLM (10x 747-206Bs converted), UTA (2x 747-2B3Bs converted) and JAL (2x 747-146Bs converted), making a total of 14 747-100/200S converted to SUD.
It's interesting to note the history of KLM's PH-BUH and BUI. Born as regular's 747-206Bs, they were converted to SUD, and then to Freighters SD...making them the only SUD and Freighter converted 747s.