SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71 Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8161 times:
Planning on investing in jet fuel futures?
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71 Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8151 times:
Well then ...
I don't know.
I would assume that the compound is pretty stable. Water is a problem, especially in a tank that is drained and refilled regularly. It has to be vented to the atmosphere and the air contains moisture that condenses on interior surfaces, drips into the fuel and sinks to the bottom if it is still or remains suspended it it is being agitated. Rule of thumb used to be that it takes about 45 minutes per foot of product depth to settle out.
There may be some components that would boil off, even at storage temperatures. I'll leave that speculation to someone who actually knows what they are talking about.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
Avioniker From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1109 posts, RR: 11 Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8030 times:
The other problem you'll have is fungus. It causes the additives to break down not to mention what it does to the aircraft systems.
There are preventatives but they come with their own set of problems.
I suggest you contact the API (American Petrolium Institute) and get your answers directly from the people that know.
One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71 Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7978 times:
Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 7): Will someone just answer the damn question...
Thank you
Go right ahead!
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
Charlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1077 posts, RR: 5 Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7969 times:
I've seen it stored indefinitely in a truck,as long as it is sumped daily.
PPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8492 posts, RR: 43 Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7957 times:
What I've heard before regarding fuel, not Av but regual Gas-station gasoline, is that gasoline is organic, and if you keep it in a car tank for extended periods of time without driving, it will cause problems (I think it was ignition problems, not sure). I don't remember what was the cause... fungus, maybe settling, don't know- sorry.
But that's an issue I've seen happenig before and the above is the explanation given.
Hope it helps any. Cheers.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
KELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 5929 posts, RR: 4 Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7934 times:
Quoting PPVRA (Reply 10): What I've heard before regarding fuel, not Av but regual Gas-station gasoline, is that gasoline is organic, and if you keep it in a car tank for extended periods of time without driving, it will cause problems (I think it was ignition problems, not sure). I don't remember what was the cause... fungus, maybe settling, don't know- sorry.
Gasoline tends to absorb water over time, and the "lighter" hydrocarbons will boil off as well. There are stabilizing additives that you can buy to prevent this. Avgas is less-susceptible to it, as it already has many additives in it to deal with these very problems. I wouldn't go out and add gasoline stabilizer to avgas, though, as it is not FAA-approved (although I see private aircraft owners put all sorts of unapproved crap into their Avgas tanks, not the least of which is Marvel Mystery Oil).
I am running my lawn mower on some ~2 year old gasoline at the moment (I'm almost to the bottom now), and even though I used gasoline stabilizers in it, I'm getting some really smoky starts now (probably related to the fact that it was winter gas, with ethanol added, which picks up water even easier than non-winterized gas does). Once it's started, though, nothing bothers that little 6.5 HP, one cylinder Briggs & Stratton with magneto ignition
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
Redcordes From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 245 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7812 times:
Quoting 474218 (Reply 6):
The fungus is caused by water in the fuel, not the fuel its self.
Yes, and bacteria. Owners and operators of diesel-powered boats know a whole lot about contamination and long-term storage of fuel. It's all about keeping water out of the fuel.
"The only source of knowledge is experience." A. Einstein "Science w/o religion is lame. Religion w/o science is blind."
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7790 times:
Not very sure about the Storage life.Would need to check that out.However Refuelling Agencies out here have to maintain a specified standard too.Their QC department is answerable to the Regulatory Agency of the Country concerned.Which specifies certain checks & its intervals to be carried out.
regds
MEL
411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 9 Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7729 times:
The answer to the original question is...indefinitely, provided the storage facilities are maintained properly.
CRJonBeez From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 317 posts, RR: 4 Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7688 times:
Quoting 411A (Reply 14): The answer to the original question is...indefinitely, provided the storage facilities are maintained properly.
yup...
i don't know about all the others, but phillips jet fuel contains a biocide to take care of the bacterial growth in jet fuel
from the delivery truck, it is filtered once at the truck and once at the hose
from the tank, it is filtered at the pipe taking the fuel in, the pipe sending fuel out, again at a larger filter after the piping, then at the hose
to the fuel truck, it is filtered at the attachment point, then in the pipe, and once more at the end of the hoses used for refueling
jet fuel is filtered an incredible number of times, yet all the filtering in the world won't take away all the problems. anti-icing additives are a major issue in GA a/c not equipped with any device to heat jet fuel, such as the smaller citations, the beechjet, and several others
TWAL1011727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 597 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7624 times:
As stated...the major culprit of Jet fuel is moisture...If the tank is near full then condensation is less (as with any type tank.) The FAA (and most airlines)require that a tank be sumped at least every 3 hours after inactivity. This includes filter/coalescer
The filter coalescer contain 3- 5 layers of filter paper, the primary job of the filter/coalescer is water removal. The coalescer has thousands of fiberglass strands that are interwoven over each other. When a water droplet hits the strand, it travel along that strand to a point where another strand touches it and joins with other water droplets. This increases the size of the water droplet to the point where it floats off the strand into the fuel flow. It then hits the water seperator. The water seperator is basically a long metal tube with alot of holes. The tube is covered with a teflon coating. When the water droplet hits the coating it will eventually drop to the bottm of the filter vessel and into the sump drain housing. Then it is sumped out.
As far as I know, Jet fuel does not go "bad" nor varnish up like auto gas does. If the fuel is "dry" then it can be stored indefinitely. It may be a good idea from time to time to recirculate/stir the fuel in the tank/s and filter vessel. This helps take water/impurites, if any are present, to the filter to keep the fuel clean and dry.
Quoting CRJonBeez (Reply 15): and once more at the end of the hoses used for refueling
The end of the fueling hose contains a wire mesh screen to catch big stuff ( I.E. blown out filters/degraded rubber fuel hoses etc.) It does not have filter elements.
MD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8417 posts, RR: 13 Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7592 times:
I'm assuming that Pri-D can safely be used with Jet-A requiring aircraft, but it's for darn sure that kerosene does not last indefinately.
With Pri-D treatments every 18-24 months, your fuel supply can last a decade, which ought to be plenty.
Legs From Australia, joined Jun 2006, 207 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7558 times:
Would adding an inert, moisture free gas, such as nitrogen to the 'headspace' of the tank help with the long term storage by keeping the moisture levels as low as possible? Or would this just cause more problems than it would solve?
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 7545 times:
Quoting Legs (Reply 18): Would adding an inert, moisture free gas, such as nitrogen to the 'headspace' of the tank help with the long term storage by keeping the moisture levels as low as possible
That would mean pressurised tanks.Is that feasable for ATF containers.
regds
MEL
JarheadK5 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 216 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7416 times:
Biobor is your friend if you want to store Jet for a long time...
Quoting TWAL1011727 (Reply 16): It may be a good idea from time to time to recirculate/stir the fuel in the tank/s and filter vessel. This helps take water/impurites, if any are present, to the filter to keep the fuel clean and dry.
This is called "fuel polishing" by the yacht industry. Google that phrase; you'll find all kinds of good info.
Quoting Legs (Reply 18): Would adding an inert, moisture free gas, such as nitrogen to the 'headspace' of the tank help with the long term storage by keeping the moisture levels as low as possible?
I would think so. Combine that with a tank in good material condition, a good fuel polishing setup, and some Biobor, and you'd probably be good to go for many years...
JHSfan From Denmark, joined Apr 2004, 469 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7326 times:
Quoting Legs (Reply 18): Would adding an inert, moisture free gas, such as nitrogen to the 'headspace' of the tank help with the long term storage by keeping the moisture levels as low as possible? Or would this just cause more problems than it would solve?
A complementary solution to the use of inert gas is having a fuel tank that contracts as the fuel is removed.
A "fuel bladder" like this could be a solution (I'm not 100 % sure on that) as long as the volume of air inside the tank does not increase (too much) as the fuel is drained.
Yours in realtime
JHSfan
Look at me, I´m riding high, I´m the airbornmaster of the sky...
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(probably related to the fact that it was winter gas, with ethanol added, which picks up water even easier than non-winterized gas does). Once it's started, though, nothing bothers that little 6.5 HP, one cylinder Briggs & Stratton with magneto ignition 
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