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Citation Becomes A Power Boat  
User currently offlineSudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 22983 times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V06LBgfuxgA

What strikes me in regards to this incident is all the errors the pilot made! Airport was closed for jet traffic at the time, which pilot knew as well. Hm....
And why leave the plane with engines still running!?
That can not be SOP anywhere in the world, right?


NTSB report here
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20050526X00676&key=1

Comment, point of view?

Aim for the sky!
Sudden


When in doubt, flat out!
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9523 posts, RR: 42
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 22979 times:

It certainly seemed to be enjoying itself.

Quoting Sudden (Thread starter):
That can not be SOP anywhere in the world, right?

Are there SOPs for such situations? If they thought the aircraft might go straight under, might they be more concerned about getting out?

Edit: Typo.

[Edited 2006-09-02 18:00:22]

User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 22995 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



Quoting David L (Reply 1):
Are there SOPs for such situations?

I would assume, after a crash/overrun/etc, the checklist would call for fuel cutoff...


Edit: The owner of the jet, the Weibel Corporation, has since replaced the 525 (OY-JET) with a 680, and apparently has a sense of humor. Check out the new registration:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Regin Krøigaard






2H4




[Edited 2006-09-02 17:57:12]


Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 22968 times:

When you are through flying it is generally a good idea to shut down the engines.

Cessna builds a pretty good boat. If both engines had been running he might have made it to a launch ramp somewhere.

I just wish it had been a US airplane and pilot so that we could have revoked the certificates.

Yes, many errors.

Anyone know offhand what country of Registration? OY-JET
Maybe it should have been Oy Vey!



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9523 posts, RR: 42
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 22956 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 2):
I would assume, after a crash/overrun/etc, the checklist would call for fuel cutoff.



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 3):
When you are through flying it is generally a good idea to shut down the engines.

Well, yes. But I'm just picturing them going through the Pre-sinking Checklist.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 2):
Check out the new registration:

 biggrin 


User currently offlineSudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 22926 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 3):
When you are through flying it is generally a good idea to shut down the engines.

Although this was not a normal end of the day, I still bet that in any case the power/fuel should be cut off, or am I asking for to much now?
Sure it depends on the situtation but in this case the pilot could have done at least one thing right and cut the fuel.

By the way,
Why does the engine spool up like that by itself?

Aim for the sky
Sudden



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 22919 times:

I don't get it. How would the engine start up on its own again? Could the pilot have bumped a switch when he left the cockpit or something?

User currently offlineFlymatt2bermud From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 563 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 22900 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 3):
Anyone know offhand what country of Registration? OY-JET

Aircraft with registration beginning with OY are registered in Denmark, Greenland or the Faroe Islands.



"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
User currently offlineTEBguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 255 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 22881 times:

When the engine spooled up the aircraft was empty (the occupants had already been rescued by boat) so, how could the engine spool up on it's own?


Remember, taking off is optional, landing is mandatory.
User currently offlineBobster2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 22871 times:

Why did ATC direct them to AIY instead of ACY? Missed it by one letter. 

AIY is closing soon:

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/n...late=contentModules/printstory.jsp

View from the air:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Robert Friedlander



[Edited 2006-09-02 20:15:06]

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 22864 times:

Something that I noticed from the NTSB info... [My emphasis]

A review of recorded radar data and air traffic control (ATC) communications revealed the pilot contacted Atlantic City (ACY) Approach Control at 1538, and stated he was inbound to "alpha charlie yankee." The pilot was instructed to descend to an altitude of 2,000 feet, and fly heading 220 degrees.

At 1540, ATC instructed the pilot to "proceed direct Bader, descend and maintain 1,500 feet. Expect visual approach." The pilot read back the instructions, stating, "thank you, direct Bader, descend to 1,500."


Notwithstanding that the pilots were apparently not from here, but was their original intention to fly to ACY or AIY? The NTSB blurb says that they had AIY charts out, but did they do so after ATC cleared them direct Bader, or before?

I'm a little surprised that NTSB didn't at least mention this apparent ACY/AIY confusion.


User currently offlineSudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 22847 times:

One other thing that made me think,

Did the pilot overshoot the rwy by approx 1000 feet due to that they made final approach on downwind, and should he not have aborted instead cause 1000 feet should be very notisable for the pilot to understand that something was not correct?

Aim for the sky!
Sudden



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 22821 times:

Quoting TEBguy (Reply 8):
how could the engine spool up on it's own?



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 6):
How would the engine start up on its own again?

Could it have been an electrical short-circuit with the water?



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 22818 times:

Quoting TEBguy (Reply 8):
When the engine spooled up the aircraft was empty (the occupants had already been rescued by boat) so, how could the engine spool up on it's own?

If the engines had been flamed out by the initial surge/spray when they entered the water, and with fuel cut-offs presumably not having been pulled (and thus ignition and fuel still available) maybe just enough windmilling going on to get them re-lit once the ingested water cleared/drained?


User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1519 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 22746 times:

Sounded like the engines were off when the guys filming got to the water. Looked like only the right engine re-started. I know nothing of any kind of Citations, but with electrical systems becoming water logged, it might be possible that the engine started on its own through a short. The airplane was making a continuous left doggy paddle, which supports the right engine running.

Maybe it'll be addressed in the final NTSB report. Would love to know what the deal was.


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 31
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 22739 times:

Have You All Seen This? Citation Overrun Video? (by ArmitageShanks Sep 2 2006 in Non Aviation)

Thou, I really dont know why its there...



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineBobster2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 22564 times:

The Press of Atlantic City ran a story titled "Pilot followed instructions right into the water" based on the NTSB factual report.

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/n...inter/story/6013838p-5987287c.html

Note that the reporter called the NTSB and they declined comment.

Since that newspaper article was written, the probable cause was published by the NTSB, and that is the final report. So the issue was never clarified.


User currently offlineFlyMatt2Bermud From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 563 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 22563 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 10):
stated he was inbound to "alpha charlie yankee."

Thanks for making this point. Overseas, especially where English is not the primary language, it is common to identify your waypoints, intersections and airports with its spelling or 3 letter identifier. Makes owning a Garmin 396 (or similar)even more advantageous for use in aircraft which do not have the capability of displaying airport runways.



"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
User currently offlineJHSfan From Denmark, joined Apr 2004, 469 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 22412 times:

Thanks to Sudden for pointing to this rather unique video.  eyepopping 

Good old Weibel Corporation... it's not the only time they messed up things in the aviation world.
A few years ago the companys owner bought a small island, Hesseloe, here in Denmark. The island had an airstrip, that the owner expanded. But by doing this he ignored preservation laws and caused damage to the nature.  banghead 
He had to reestablish the area as it was before.

Weibel has been a bit of an embarrassment.  embarrassed 

Yours in realtime
JHSfan



Look at me, I´m riding high, I´m the airbornmaster of the sky...
User currently offlineJHSfan From Denmark, joined Apr 2004, 469 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 22251 times:

Having looked at the video 5 times yesterday, I noticed a fat guy in in blue one of the boats 3:30 into the video.



My mind worked all by it self rather quickly and I decided to look for a certain picture -this one:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Erik Frikke



I do think that we now have two "incidents" with the very same Danish pilot.

  • First he appears as a Senior Chippendale Stripper only wearing... a Citation Jet!
  • Secondly he tries to develop a semi-submersible Citation look-alike ecranoplan.

None of these turned out to be a success in the positive understanding of the word, but at least he got some attention. I'm looking forward to how the Weibel Saga may continue. Big grin

Yours in realtime
JHSfan



Look at me, I´m riding high, I´m the airbornmaster of the sky...
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 22237 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting JHSfan (Reply 19):
I do think that we now have two "incidents" with the very same Danish pilot.

Unbelievable. You're right. That appears to be the very same guy.

The Citation with the topless fat man is OY-JEV....which is indeed registered to Weibel:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Erik Frikke



Excellent investigative work, JHSfan!




2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineClearedDirect From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 22199 times:

Quoting JHSfan (Reply 19):
I do think that we now have two "incidents" with the very same Danish pilot.

Holy Cow!
Another mystery solved.
Great work there - I would have never put the two together.
Also interesting to note that the video that we all watched was mentioned in the NTSB report (full narrative version).


User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 22114 times:

Quoting Sudden (Thread starter):
Comment, point of view?

I never would have believed it. A jet floating and still under power. If it would have been in a movie we all would be remarking how corny and imposable it was. Truth sometimes is stranger then fiction.


User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4777 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 22066 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 2):
and apparently has a sense of humor. Check out the new registration:

Maybe the company hasn't figured out the cause yet.  Smile



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineBobster2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 21961 times:

If you look at the link I posted earlier it says: "The Danish national newspaper B .T. reported that Danish aviation officials were recommending police charge Larsen for allegedly using a helicopter to buzz some children and their parents who inadvertently wandered onto his property in Denmark."

25 Airfoilsguy : When I looked again at the video, in the part where the two boats were together at the nose of the plane you can see the boat occupants tugging on lo
26 Post contains links and images FLY2HMO : The NTSB report is rather funny. It sounded like one of those DUH! moments http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=NYC05LA085&rpt=fi
27 JHSfan : Will the behaviour of Erik larsen in Denmark have any effect on his case in the US? A person hunting people with a helicopter is showing abnormal beha
28 Post contains images KELPkid : Does he have a case against himself here? I didn't think that the NTSB's judgement on his airmanship (or lack thereof ) constituted a criminal or civ
29 Bobster2 : The newspaper reports of the accident said there were two pilots and two passengers. They gave the names of both pilots. The NTSB reports said there w
30 Post contains links Bobster2 : I found the story on that in the google cache (the original seems to be missing). http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache....htmlr%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=cln
31 Post contains links and images Iwok : All, airliners.net is cited as being a group of enthusiasts putting the pilot into cult status! COOL. I guess its true that we at airliners.net have a
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