What strikes me in regards to this incident is all the errors the pilot made! Airport was closed for jet traffic at the time, which pilot knew as well. Hm....
And why leave the plane with engines still running!?
That can not be SOP anywhere in the world, right?
2H4 From United States, joined Oct 2004, 8099 posts, RR: 65 Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 11452 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW DATABASE EDITOR
Quoting David L (Reply 1): Are there SOPs for such situations?
I would assume, after a crash/overrun/etc, the checklist would call for fuel cutoff...
Edit: The owner of the jet, the Weibel Corporation, has since replaced the 525 (OY-JET) with a 680, and apparently has a sense of humor. Check out the new registration:
SlamClick From United States, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 9996 posts, RR: 79 Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 11437 times:
When you are through flying it is generally a good idea to shut down the engines.
Cessna builds a pretty good boat. If both engines had been running he might have made it to a launch ramp somewhere.
I just wish it had been a US airplane and pilot so that we could have revoked the certificates.
Yes, many errors.
Anyone know offhand what country of Registration? OY-JET
Maybe it should have been Oy Vey!
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
Sudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 3224 posts, RR: 9 Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 11398 times:
Quoting SlamClick (Reply 3): When you are through flying it is generally a good idea to shut down the engines.
Although this was not a normal end of the day, I still bet that in any case the power/fuel should be cut off, or am I asking for to much now?
Sure it depends on the situtation but in this case the pilot could have done at least one thing right and cut the fuel.
By the way,
Why does the engine spool up like that by itself?
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 11345 times:
Something that I noticed from the NTSB info... [My emphasis]
A review of recorded radar data and air traffic control (ATC) communications revealed the pilot contacted Atlantic City (ACY) Approach Control at 1538, and stated he was inbound to "alpha charlie yankee." The pilot was instructed to descend to an altitude of 2,000 feet, and fly heading 220 degrees.
At 1540, ATC instructed the pilot to "proceed direct Bader, descend and maintain 1,500 feet. Expect visual approach." The pilot read back the instructions, stating, "thank you, direct Bader, descend to 1,500."
Notwithstanding that the pilots were apparently not from here, but was their original intention to fly to ACY or AIY? The NTSB blurb says that they had AIY charts out, but did they do so after ATC cleared them direct Bader, or before?
I'm a little surprised that NTSB didn't at least mention this apparent ACY/AIY confusion.
Sudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 3224 posts, RR: 9 Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 11327 times:
One other thing that made me think,
Did the pilot overshoot the rwy by approx 1000 feet due to that they made final approach on downwind, and should he not have aborted instead cause 1000 feet should be very notisable for the pilot to understand that something was not correct?
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 11299 times:
Quoting TEBguy (Reply 8): When the engine spooled up the aircraft was empty (the occupants had already been rescued by boat) so, how could the engine spool up on it's own?
If the engines had been flamed out by the initial surge/spray when they entered the water, and with fuel cut-offs presumably not having been pulled (and thus ignition and fuel still available) maybe just enough windmilling going on to get them re-lit once the ingested water cleared/drained?
DashTrash From United States, joined Aug 2006, 449 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11227 times:
Sounded like the engines were off when the guys filming got to the water. Looked like only the right engine re-started. I know nothing of any kind of Citations, but with electrical systems becoming water logged, it might be possible that the engine started on its own through a short. The airplane was making a continuous left doggy paddle, which supports the right engine running.
Maybe it'll be addressed in the final NTSB report. Would love to know what the deal was.
Note that the reporter called the NTSB and they declined comment.
Since that newspaper article was written, the probable cause was published by the NTSB, and that is the final report. So the issue was never clarified.
FlyMatt2Bermud From United States, joined Jan 2006, 522 posts, RR: 9 Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11044 times:
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 10): stated he was inbound to "alpha charlie yankee."
Thanks for making this point. Overseas, especially where English is not the primary language, it is common to identify your waypoints, intersections and airports with its spelling or 3 letter identifier. Makes owning a Garmin 396 (or similar)even more advantageous for use in aircraft which do not have the capability of displaying airport runways.
"I just want you to know, we're all counting on you!"
JHSfan From Denmark, joined Apr 2004, 469 posts, RR: 3 Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10893 times:
Thanks to Sudden for pointing to this rather unique video.
Good old Weibel Corporation... it's not the only time they messed up things in the aviation world.
A few years ago the companys owner bought a small island, Hesseloe, here in Denmark. The island had an airstrip, that the owner expanded. But by doing this he ignored preservation laws and caused damage to the nature.
He had to reestablish the area as it was before.
Weibel has been a bit of an embarrassment.
Yours in realtime
JHSfan
Look at me, I´m riding high, I´m the airbornmaster of the sky...
I do think that we now have two "incidents" with the very same Danish pilot.
First he appears as a Senior Chippendale Stripper only wearing... a Citation Jet!
Secondly he tries to develop a semi-submersible Citation look-alike ecranoplan.
None of these turned out to be a success in the positive understanding of the word, but at least he got some attention. I'm looking forward to how the Weibel Saga may continue.
Yours in realtime
JHSfan
Look at me, I´m riding high, I´m the airbornmaster of the sky...
ClearedDirect From United States, joined Oct 2004, 248 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10680 times:
Quoting JHSfan (Reply 19): I do think that we now have two "incidents" with the very same Danish pilot.
Holy Cow!
Another mystery solved.
Great work there - I would have never put the two together.
Also interesting to note that the video that we all watched was mentioned in the NTSB report (full narrative version).
I never would have believed it. A jet floating and still under power. If it would have been in a movie we all would be remarking how corny and imposable it was. Truth sometimes is stranger then fiction.
Bobster2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10441 times:
If you look at the link I posted earlier it says: "The Danish national newspaper B .T. reported that Danish aviation officials were recommending police charge Larsen for allegedly using a helicopter to buzz some children and their parents who inadvertently wandered onto his property in Denmark."
Airfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 25, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10333 times:
Quoting Sudden (Reply 5): By the way,
Why does the engine spool up like that by itself?
When I looked again at the video, in the part where the two boats were together at the nose of the plane you can see the boat occupants tugging on lose wires hanging from the severed nose of the plane. They appear to be either trying to tie off their boats using the wiring or maybe attempting to tow the plane? Something caused them to drop the wires, maybe a spark, and get away from the nose. That is probably what caused the engine to start up.
26 FLY2HMO: The NTSB report is rather funny. It sounded like one of those DUH! moments http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=NYC05LA085&rpt=fi
27 JHSfan: Will the behaviour of Erik larsen in Denmark have any effect on his case in the US? A person hunting people with a helicopter is showing abnormal beha
28 KELPkid: Does he have a case against himself here? I didn't think that the NTSB's judgement on his airmanship (or lack thereof ) constituted a criminal or civ
29 Bobster2: The newspaper reports of the accident said there were two pilots and two passengers. They gave the names of both pilots. The NTSB reports said there w
30 Bobster2: I found the story on that in the google cache (the original seems to be missing). http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache....htmlr%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=cln
31 Iwok: All, airliners.net is cited as being a group of enthusiasts putting the pilot into cult status! COOL. I guess its true that we at airliners.net have a
Sponsor Message: 
From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 3224 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8261 posts, 
From United States, joined Oct 2004, 8099 posts, 
, 9996 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Denmark, joined Apr 2004, 469 posts, 
From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 3163 posts, 
Sponsor Message: 
Printer friendly format
